2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2821304 30-Nov-2021 06:54

Batman:

things seem to be made up on the go. So I'm not surprised. i have not been following the news for a few weeks now because basically you wake up on the day and check the rules for the day

I guess we could have a hard and fast rule to keep you secure and happy, then you may wonder why you are restricted with no reason?

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Batman

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#2821307 30-Nov-2021 07:02

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/456801/two-volunteer-fire-brigades-suspended-due-to-shortage-of-vaccinated-crew

Dulouz

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#2821309 30-Nov-2021 07:10

Batman: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/456801/two-volunteer-fire-brigades-suspended-due-to-shortage-of-vaccinated-crew

Given the choice of burning to death or catching Covid I think I'll take my chances with Covid.

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#2821314 30-Nov-2021 07:23

Scott3:

JPNZ:

The following areas will enter the framework at red:

Northland, Auckland, Taupō and Rotorua Lakes Districts, Kawerau, Whakatane, Ōpōtiki Districts, Gisborne District, Wairoa District, Rangitikei, Whanganui and Ruapehu Districts.

The following areas will enter the framework at orange:

The rest of the North Island and the whole of the South Island will move in at Orange

I was really suppressed by this. Government has completly abandoned the criteria it set for red / orange classifications, roughly two weeks ago. I didn't watch the full Q+A, but the speech didn't cover any reasons for the prior criteria being abandoned.... If I recall correctly giving businesses certainty as a major theme of the speech where the classification criteria was announced. I didn't watch the full Q+A, but the speech didn't cover any reasons for the prior criteria being abandoned....

Basically it was that regions at less than 90% fully vaccinated were going to red (with some pragmatism for regions that are very close). Yet we have places like the west coast, our third worst region in terms of fully vaccinated percentage at just 78%, going into Orange, along with places like Taranaki on 81%.

We were told the alert level system was no longer fit for purpose going forward which is something I do fully agree with. The replacement traffic light framework was purposely designed to replace it and to bring in an acceptance that we're living with the virus.

The problem now is the traffic light system seems to have been butchered before it's even been put in place. We also had many people (and media) still seem surprised nowhere was going to green, and that was fueled by the PM who hinted that reviews for green will be happening mid January. The problem is if you're to read the framework there is zero chance of going into green for a long time - I'd be surprised if we see green at any point within the next 4-6 months UNLESS we're going to continue to ignore the framework rules and just make things up as we go.

The big data dump on Friday and decisions we're seen in recent weeks really make me wonder who is calling the shots here.

We have a vaccine pass system that's a shambles before it even starts because they're not required to be checked, and now we have an entire framework that doesn't seem like it's going to be any better.

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#2821315 30-Nov-2021 07:24

Dulouz:
Batman: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/456801/two-volunteer-fire-brigades-suspended-due-to-shortage-of-vaccinated-crew

Given the choice of burning to death or catching Covid I think I'll take my chances with Covid.

I think there will come a point where they stop flogging the vaccinated to work harder to pay for the holidays of the unvaccinated.

Colleague was saying if they knew they'd get a free paid holiday they'd delay vaccination by a few weeks as they were going to get it anyway.

quickymart

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#2821349 30-Nov-2021 08:52

I was planning on going to the South Island to see family next year, but am having second thoughts given some of the antivaxx bs floating around the local community page, not to mention the outright hostility towards people wearing masks etc. Quite sad really.

As to the guy who died, I guess at least he didn't ask for the vaccine on his deathbed, which I've heard of happening a lot, especially in the US - but by that point it's far too late. Would the pill make any difference to people in that scenario though? (genuine question)

SJB

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#2821370 30-Nov-2021 09:26

sbiddle:

I'd be surprised if we see green at any point within the next 4-6 months UNLESS we're going to continue to ignore the framework rules and just make things up as we go.

The government has been doing exactly that since delta arrived.

It's like we had an election between outbreaks and swapped to a different party.

First time decisive and effective. Second time dithering and incompetent.

SJB

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#2821372 30-Nov-2021 09:30

One of out local cafe owners is thinking they might close 2 days a week because of the passport mandate.

They don't want to leave the staff to deal with irate non-vaxxed customers and they can't work 7 days a week indefinitely.

quickymart

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#2821433 30-Nov-2021 10:00

Not this cafe, is it?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127075707/covid19-signs-on-cafes-welcoming-vaxed-and-unvaxed-may-look-official-but-theyre-not

Geektastic

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#2821434 30-Nov-2021 10:00

After being on hold for 35 minutes I eventually spoke to someone this morning.

The purported reason for not being able to book on line - which seems unlikely to be true going forward - is that the vaccination clinics in Masterton won't be operating after 23 December. When I suggested that there would be both the entire local population requiring boosters over the next year as well as new residents, children when that is allowed etc I got a rather blank "Computer says no" kind of response.

Eventually, just to get runs on the board, I booked an appointment on 28 December but have to drive to Upper Hutt for it. I will change it if sanity breaks out more locally.

Given the amount of time that there has been to organise this and put systems in place, and the money thrown at it, I have to say that I am underwhelmed by the local implementation, to say the least.

Sup

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#2821436 30-Nov-2021 10:05

quickymart:

I was planning on going to the South Island to see family next year, but am having second thoughts given some of the antivaxx bs floating around the local community page, not to mention the outright hostility towards people wearing masks etc. Quite sad really.

As to the guy who died, I guess at least he didn't ask for the vaccine on his deathbed, which I've heard of happening a lot, especially in the US - but by that point it's far too late. Would the pill make any difference to people in that scenario though? (genuine question)

Yeah nah antivirals need to be given early. Generally within the first five days of developing symptoms. Unfortunately that is the limitation of using antivirals against Covid.

Antivirals do not kill the virus, so once it gets to the level where people are needing I.C.U.s it is too late. Antivirals interfere with the life cycle of the virus. Molnupirivir and Paxlovid for example interfere with replication, thus giving the patients immune system a fighting chance to fight off the infection.

In other words they slow Covid down (long enough for you to mount a response) by the time you are in I.C.U. you are riddled with virus and the immune system is overwhelmed, organ damage is underway.

Monoclonal antibodies also work best when given early, there is a tipping point where too much virus/viral damage means a multi systems organ assault that has out paced your attempts to stop it.

Just keep swimming...

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#2821438 30-Nov-2021 10:07

quickymart:

Not this cafe, is it?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127075707/covid19-signs-on-cafes-welcoming-vaxed-and-unvaxed-may-look-official-but-theyre-not

"... been posting official looking Unite Against Covid-19 signs saying "All Welcome, vaxed and unvaxed". She said she cannot in good conscience turn away loyal customers when the vaccine pass system becomes an option with the traffic light system."

My opinion is 1. she's an antivax and 2. she cannot in good conscience turn away those sweet, sweet dollars.

Also I am not sure it's up to the owner to opt-in or opt-out of the system.

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wellygary

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#2821440 30-Nov-2021 10:08

SJB:

sbiddle:

I'd be surprised if we see green at any point within the next 4-6 months UNLESS we're going to continue to ignore the framework rules and just make things up as we go.

The government has been doing exactly that since delta arrived.
It's like we had an election between outbreaks and swapped to a different party.
First time decisive and effective. Second time dithering and incompetent.

They are now being totally open about making it up as they go along...

"Health Minister Andrew Little says officials will make a 'human judgement' rather than set specific criteria for regions to shift down in the traffic light system.

However he says any shifts between green, orange and red will be based on vaccination levels, health system preparedness and case numbers in that region. "

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018822599/covid-19-andrew-little-on-why-there-s-no-target-to-change-traffic-light-settings

SJB

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#2821443 30-Nov-2021 10:12

quickymart:

Not this cafe, is it?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127075707/covid19-signs-on-cafes-welcoming-vaxed-and-unvaxed-may-look-official-but-theyre-not

No.

Our cafe just wants to stick to the rules but don't want to put their staff in possible harms way. The good thing is that they are only 2 doors down from the police station.

We do have another cafe run by a self confessed conspiracy theorist. The place is normally empty now (he only 'came out' a few weeks back) so I don't think it will last long into the New Year.

Technofreak

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#2821446 30-Nov-2021 10:17

freitasm:

quickymart:

Not this cafe, is it?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127075707/covid19-signs-on-cafes-welcoming-vaxed-and-unvaxed-may-look-official-but-theyre-not

"... been posting official looking Unite Against Covid-19 signs saying "All Welcome, vaxed and unvaxed". She said she cannot in good conscience turn away loyal customers when the vaccine pass system becomes an option with the traffic light system."

My opinion is 1. she's an antivax and 2. she cannot in good conscience turn away those sweet, sweet dollars.

Also I am not sure it's up to the owner to opt-in or opt-out of the system.

I'm not sure dollars come into the decision making process for a lot of these people. If it does they're are probably deluded in the numbers of people they believe support their position. If I saw that sign I would specifically not support that business and I would hope most people would do the same. The vaxxed way out number the unvaxxed and cafes like that risk losing more patronage than they hope to gain from displaying such signs.

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