2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2850180 13-Jan-2022 15:31

Overheard someone today protesting loudly on their phone in a carpark that their doctor had advised her illnesses classified as immunocompromised, and required 'another bloody jab' (and follow up 4months later)

Clearly the alternate is less of a burden...

Sharesies kids

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Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2850229 13-Jan-2022 15:37

CruciasNZ:

It irks me greatly to think that people will suffer more because of these wombles. They're going to clog our hospitals and take up resources that could make a greater and more wide-spread difference elsewhere (e.g. cancer surgery being kicked down the kerb, etc. etc.). We're seeing that heavily in the USA right now, and in some places the system there is about ready to collapse. My friend's hospital is trying to coerce Nurses with COVID to keep working because they're so drowned in patients, almost all of which are unvaccinated. There was a six hour wait for patients at the ER two weeks ago, I am horrified to think of what the ambulance bill is going to be for those stuck in the parking lot inside an ambulance for hours (which apparently happened).

The thing I fear most from this pandemic is chronic long term health system harm.

As a retired Nurse I have tried to imagine how I would have responded to this situation. We did a lot of prep for it, because I had a role in infection control. But that prep was mainly mental, so spending more time than other folks thinking about pandemics as a serious future event, and having a ward level response plan (Covid would have ruined that plan now I look back in hindsight, our masks were not even N95 fitted, our "pandemic response box of masks and gloves, suits and goggles were a bit of a joke really).

Pandemics before you are in one, are like this Adrenalin generating fight or flight thought experiment, where you go into a soldiers mindset, you see the pandemic as a war, and you see your role as a health care professional is to mount the defence of your people

Combat, is a poorly understood psychological aspect of health care.

Workers knowingly put their bodies on the line, risking theirs and their families health, and they serve the people. It is why health care workers have such a proud history as members of the armed forces, the combat aspect, is deeply ingrained.

Even the work place culture is millitary, chain of command, triage is a war term, nursing and medical ranks have millitary equivalents, both classes of health staff enter the armed forces directly into commisioned officers ranks, Nurses are Captains, Doctors are Colonels etc.

I digress, but bare with me, there is an important point to all of this, the psychology of being a pandemic fighter.

Now imagine if your Government was bungling your attempts to fight the war, Nurses and Doctors train to win, to save lives, it makes the pain of loss bearable.

And imagine if the people you were fighting for, were unvaccinated, they refuse to put Armour on, they abuse you, they deny the war is real.

That is a dystopian nightmare that is real.

This is why workers are suffering mental health injuries from the pandemic, why many of them are traumatized.

You are not meant to arrange face time death goodbyes all day to balling families, it is not why you studied really hard for three to ten years for this crap.

And so my fear is, that the health system, which operates as a conveyor belt, constantly burning out its experienced staff, under paying them, replacing them with cheaper new graduates who go on the same conveyor and get chewed up and spat out....well what happens when the new recruits stop enlisting?

Rhetorical. The picture I am seeing is very bleak indeed, and I am talking globally,. That is the biggest threat of Covid.

Just keep swimming...

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2850230 13-Jan-2022 15:44

CruciasNZ:

It irks me greatly to think that people will suffer more because of these wombles. They're going to clog our hospitals and take up resources that could make a greater and more wide-spread difference elsewhere (e.g. cancer surgery being kicked down the kerb, etc. etc.). We're seeing that heavily in the USA right now, and in some places the system there is about ready to collapse. My friend's hospital is trying to coerce Nurses with COVID to keep working because they're so drowned in patients, almost all of which are unvaccinated. There was a six hour wait for patients at the ER two weeks ago, I am horrified to think of what the ambulance bill is going to be for those stuck in the parking lot inside an ambulance for hours (which apparently happened).

The thing I fear most from this pandemic is chronic long term health system harm.

Combat, is a poorly understood psychological aspect of health care.

Even the work place culture is millitary, chain of command, triage is a war term, nursing and medical ranks have millitary equivalents, both classes of health staff enter the armed forces directly into commissioned officers ranks, Nurses are Captains, Doctors are Colonels etc.

I digress, but bare with me, there is an important point to all of this, the psychology of being a pandemic fighter.

Now imagine if your Government was bungling your attempts to fight the war, Nurses and Doctors train to win, to save lives, it makes the pain of loss bearable.

And imagine if the people you were fighting for, were unvaccinated, they refuse to put Armour on, they abuse you, they deny the war is real.

That is a dystopian nightmare that is real...one where some of the people you are fighting for, are fighting for the virus, and in doing so killing other people you are charged with saving.

This is the most appalling unforeseen mental assault of this pandemic. The failure of Governments to protect health care, from people who are the enemy within. People who spend their time undoing everything you work for, everything your stand for, and then have the Gaul to bring their covid risk to you and demand that you do something about it.

This is why workers are suffering mental health injuries from the pandemic, why many of them are traumatized.

You are not meant to arrange face time death goodbyes all day to balling families, it is not why you studied really hard for three to ten years for this crap.

Rhetorical. The picture I am seeing is very bleak indeed, and I am talking globally,. That is the biggest threat of Covid.

When people realize there is no rewards in health care that outweigh the mental and emotional damage, the impact will be profound.

Fortunately for us we live in a country that can do something about it.

Just keep swimming...

mattwnz

20103 posts

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#2850327 14-Jan-2022 00:22

CruciasNZ:

It irks me greatly to think that people will suffer more because of these wombles. They're going to clog our hospitals and take up resources that could make a greater and more wide-spread difference elsewhere (e.g. cancer surgery being kicked down the kerb, etc. etc.). We're seeing that heavily in the USA right now, and in some places the system there is about ready to collapse. My friend's hospital is trying to coerce Nurses with COVID to keep working because they're so drowned in patients, almost all of which are unvaccinated. There was a six hour wait for patients at the ER two weeks ago, I am horrified to think of what the ambulance bill is going to be for those stuck in the parking lot inside an ambulance for hours (which apparently happened).

Some places overseas it looks like they are billing people if they need hospital treatment for Covid and aren't vaccinated . I wouldn't be surprised if that occurs in Oz. Oz already have to pay for rapid tests (if they can find one to buy) which IMO is crazy. I don't think that would fly in NZ except possibly for businesses.

DS248

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#2850330 14-Jan-2022 00:48

WA proof of vaccination requirements will be extended significantly from 31 Jan.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-13/wa-expands-proof-of-vaccination-requirements/100754194

“We have seen the disaster in New South Wales when they removed proof of vaccination requirements in mid-December. We have learned from their mistakes and are determined not to repeat them."

Sup

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Ultimate Geek

#2850332 14-Jan-2022 01:16

Sorry about the double posts, went offline, came back and edit had expired.

There is a lot of discussion about what is the real benefit of the boosters. For manufacturers, and the media, the emphasis is on waning antibodies. However the only obvious benefit of this approach, is that less people suffer all forms of disease severity, i.e. less mild break through type cases than with two shots.

However two shots, still protects up to ninety percent against severe disease. This is irrespective of the variant, which proves the vaccines are still excellent, and is strongly suggestive that we do not need an omicron specific vaccine, despite what the CEO of Pfizer says.

The most interesting argument, is that the need for a third shot is a function of time, waiting six months between shots is more important than the number of injections.

So, in theory, the booster is seen by some experts as a time interval correction. This argument follows that in a perfect world, vaccine trials, would have included people who were given shot two, six months after shot one....and that perhaps these people would not have needed boosters.

If you think about endemic disease, and seasonality, it makes sense that the immune system would evolve to peak when primed six months later. Most of us get a cold a couple of times a year, perhaps this gap is wired into the matrix of immunity.

And you can see why A.T.A.G.I the vaccine advisory in Australia tried to cling to an at least five month gap between shots two and three, to protect the function of time.

The problem with seeking clinical purity, in the time of raging disease, is that none of us know how functional our individual immune systems are. They will be on a continuum, and some of us will be better served by having the booster sooner, before omicron arrives, therefore delaying protection is not advised in an omicron environment.

Just keep swimming...

DS248

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#2850333 14-Jan-2022 01:20

Impact of Omicron on the AU economy continuing to get worse.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-13/covid19-omicron-economy-supply-chains-workers-rats/100753740

And of course now record numbers of deaths in AU (and spike in UK deaths over the last two days).

Ideal if we could (miraculously?) keep it at bay until a high portion of 5-11 year olds are vaccinated + most adults a booster shot. Even then not clear that will be enough. From experiences in AU & elsewhere, will likely need to maintain restrictions to avoid the worst impacts.

But it would be interesting to see if having a high high portion of 5-11 year olds vaccinated did make a significant impact

Batman

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#2850367 14-Jan-2022 07:32

DS248:

Impact of Omicron on the AU economy continuing to get worse.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-13/covid19-omicron-economy-supply-chains-workers-rats/100753740

And of course now record numbers of deaths in AU (and spike in UK deaths over the last two days).

Ideal if we could (miraculously?) keep it at bay until a high portion of 5-11 year olds are vaccinated + most adults a booster shot. Even then not clear that will be enough. From experiences in AU & elsewhere, will likely need to maintain restrictions to avoid the worst impacts.

But it would be interesting to see if having a high high portion of 5-11 year olds vaccinated did make a significant impact

when AU opened up delta went exponential, when we opened up cases went down

i'll just cross fingers with omicron. apparently booster is the key. but what age ...

floydbloke

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#2850370 14-Jan-2022 07:41

Oblivian: Overheard someone today ...'another bloody jab' (and follow up 4months later)

Clearly the alternate is less of a burden...

Agreed, I struggle to see what all the fuss is about having to have multiple jabs.

Going for my booster was about as cumbersome and time-consuming as my daily bowel motions.

(Before this riles anyone, it's tongue-in-cheek. I know it's not as straightforward for everyone, just saying that in my view the inconvenience of having to go for one, or two, or x more jabs is minimal compared to the benefits.)

Thanks for explaining "plethora".

It means a lot.

cshwone

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#2850397 14-Jan-2022 08:46

I get the weekly update from the Regent Cinema in Masterton. Is it just me? but I find the commentary from them below bordering on anti-vax and pandering to that minority. It could have been so much better by saying "To protect our patrons we are implementing the Covid Pass in line with Government direction. We want to provide you with a safe environment so this was an easy decision to make"

COVID-19 FRAMEWORK UPDATE:
Kia Ora Wairarapa,
Regent 3 Cinemas has made the difficult decision to adhere to the Goverment recommendations, and to require customers to show valid NZ COVID-19 Vaccine or Exemption Passes in order to enter and view screenings at Regent 3 Cinemas.
Please know this was not a decision made lightly. We understand the difficult position that this move will place on some members of our community, and apologise for the inconvenience and potential hurt that this may cause.

freitasm

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#2850402 14-Jan-2022 08:49

cshwone:

I get the weekly update from the Regent Cinema in Masterton. Is it just me? but I find the commentary from them below bordering on anti-vax and pandering to that minority. It could have been so much better by saying "To protect our patrons we are implementing the Covid Pass in line with Government direction. We want to provide you with a safe environment so this was an easy decision to make"

COVID-19 FRAMEWORK UPDATE:
Kia Ora Wairarapa,
Regent 3 Cinemas has made the difficult decision to adhere to the Goverment recommendations, and to require customers to show valid NZ COVID-19 Vaccine or Exemption Passes in order to enter and view screenings at Regent 3 Cinemas.
Please know this was not a decision made lightly. We understand the difficult position that this move will place on some members of our community, and apologise for the inconvenience and potential hurt that this may cause.

To me it basically says "We don't want to do it but since we won't have any money coming in then we have to use the passes."

And yes. In my opinion anti-vaxxers.

GV27

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#2850409 14-Jan-2022 08:51

Why apologise to those idiots? Because their right to entrench a pandemic is being infringed?

"Oh no, I'm so hurt by not being able to be a self-centered knob and impose that choice on the health and wellbeing of others :( :( :( "

Just get a Disney+ sub and never go back.

quickymart

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#2850415 14-Jan-2022 09:10

Probably in kahoots with the cafe owners up the road (as mentioned previously).

alasta

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#2850418 14-Jan-2022 09:15

I wonder if maybe they are being careful about the wording of that communication due to them having had problems with their staff being abused. Just a theory.

freitasm

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#2850421 14-Jan-2022 09:19

alasta:

I wonder if maybe they are being careful about the wording of that communication due to them having had problems with their staff being abused. Just a theory.

Nah. @cshwone suggestion "To protect our patrons we are implementing the Covid Pass in line with Government direction. We want to provide you with a safe environment so this was an easy decision to make" is clear, to the point and it doesn't make it sound like they are being coerced into doing it.

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