2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2879102 4-Mar-2022 14:41

More infuriating reporting from NZHerald today, its no wonder the anti-mandate / anti-vax brigade have such a field day with both MSM and the covid numbers.

"5 new deaths reported today" was part of the main headline. Now if you care to continue to read further into the article, it goes on to explain that they all died of unrelated conditions but had tested positive. It just makes a mockery of truth, what are the true "died FROM covid" vs "died with covid"

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JPNZ

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#2879119 4-Mar-2022 15:16

sen8or:

More infuriating reporting from NZHerald today, its no wonder the anti-mandate / anti-vax brigade have such a field day with both MSM and the covid numbers.

"5 new deaths reported today" was part of the main headline. Now if you care to continue to read further into the article, it goes on to explain that they all died of unrelated conditions but had tested positive. It just makes a mockery of truth, what are the true "died FROM covid" vs "died with covid"

I'll let you in on a little secret..

None of those 5 died "from" covid. Sensationalist reporting at its worst

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Batman

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#2879122 4-Mar-2022 15:20

No moh keeps using stupid who standards according to dr A

This has been fuelling conspiracy theories globally all this time

sen8or

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#2879125 4-Mar-2022 15:35

Batman: No moh keeps using stupid who standards according to dr A

This has been fuelling conspiracy theories globally all this time

Everythings a conspiracy theory, sometimes it just has to be made up :)

If they stopped feeding 1/2 truths and just laid the facts bare, the tinfoil hat brigade would be able to be quashed with undisputable facts, as it stands, this is very difficult to do. It further paints a pretty bleak picture of many world Governments who have thrown economies into complete disarray to keep the citizens safe if / when the real covid fatality numbers are ever known (I suspect we'll never know) and they don't support the whole "deadly pandemic" rhetoric.

Has there been general health suffering, absolutely, have people who are vulnerable caught it and subsequently dies, undoubtedly and to that end, its difficult to speculate on scenarios that were different than the ones that actually happened. There may be statisticians or modelling experts who could extrapolate data to try and predict, but that is a bit like predicting the weather, sure there is some science behind it, but there are just too many variables for certainty.

On2or3wheels

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#2879131 4-Mar-2022 15:51

The MOH is pretty clear they didn't die from Covid. https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/news-items/22527-community-cases-562-hospital-11-icu

If I have friends that jump on the Govt exaggeration cover up train I always point them toward the official news bulletin or video stand-up.

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#2879140 4-Mar-2022 16:20

In countries like Singapore, they only report a covid death if someone with covid dies primarily as a result of lung failure.

in countries like NZ and Italy, if you are sitting on a bench and a truck runs over you and they test you for covid and you are positive that counts as a covid death.

not sure about USA, iirc i think it's variable as the federal govt does not have control over this.

Oblivian

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#2879173 4-Mar-2022 16:55

How do you think the 'they say it was covid when it wasn't for money kickback' and 'they lie' conspiracy come from.

The US reporting all deaths where it was detected and having the same differential issues.

Can't exactly rule it out with a coroner that's got a months long backlog for every standup/release. So you pick one. It either might have killed them. Or it didn't and they had it.

We've gone to severely clearing up the latter. But the media may spin or count it differently.
Moh still have to count a dead person as a case if it wasn't previously a known case that contributed to a figure. And if they were known. Seems they still like to.

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#2879177 4-Mar-2022 17:02

if MOH want to do that they can easily specify "died with covid" not of / from covid

USA has 300 million people multiple states and even more sub governance, had swamped hospitals, ok maybe they don't know who died of what

Singapore has 5 million people, they can easily identify who died of what and they are able to categorise covid death from others

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#2879192 4-Mar-2022 17:32

Batman:

if MOH want to do that they can easily specify "died with covid" not of / from covid

Which is exactly what NZ MoH do

Deaths of five people with COVID-19

Sadly, we are today reporting the deaths of five people with COVID-19.

These include:

A patient with COVID-19 passed away at Tauranga Hospital yesterday. The person was in hospital for an unrelated condition but had tested positive for COVID-19.
A patient passed away at Waikato Hospital yesterday. The person died of an unrelated medical condition and had tested positive for COVID-19.
A person in Dunedin who died of an unrelated medical condition yesterday while receiving palliative care and had tested positive for COVID-19
Two patients who passed away with COVID-19 in Middlemore Hospital, on 1 March and 27 February. Both people had unrelated medical conditions and had tested positive for COVID-19
Our thoughts and condolences are with these peoples’ family and friends.

Out of respect for privacy, we will be making no further comment.

from https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/news-items/22527-community-cases-562-hospital-11-icu

It is hard to see how they could be any clearer.

It's not their fault if the Auckland Herald and Stuff turn it into something else just for clicks

Edit: formatting

Jase2985

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#2879198 4-Mar-2022 17:39

yes but do they do into our covid death tally?

Benoire

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#2879199 4-Mar-2022 17:43

Jase2985:

yes but do they do into our covid death tally?

Most likely as that is how the rest of the worlds are doing, they all apply the WHO guidance so it can be compared without issues.

EDIT: Otherwise it would be hard to compare across jurisdictions to build the picture at a global pandemic level country by country if they all had differing ways of reporting.

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#2879204 4-Mar-2022 18:05

but i guess thats the problem, its not a accurate representation.

Benoire

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#2879205 4-Mar-2022 18:10

Jase2985:

but i guess thats the problem, its not a accurate representation.

yep I know, its a bit dumb but it is what it is and it would take a huge amount of work to reclassify so I guess they just keep reporting it that way, at leas the MOH is now saying if Covid was part of the cause of death or just present rather than saying nothing.

Hammerer

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#2879215 4-Mar-2022 19:19

Other countries have bigger problems with this issue. It has blown up overseas for several counties. The most prominent example is Denmark which has removed restrictions only to see deaths skyrocket. But about 70% of current Covid-related deaths are people dying of other conditions while having Covid. This proportion increases as a higher proportion of the total population catch the virus.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/health/denmark-removed-all-restrictions-and-experts-panicked-but-theres-more-to-the-story/news-story/dc54e12cf4986dfbda97fc341328651e

There are many other news reports of this issue in other countries too.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/the-grey-zone-hindering-efforts-to-count-canada-s-covid-19-deaths-1.5801131

sudo

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#2879257 4-Mar-2022 22:59

GV27:

I understand this. I just think it sucks*.

"Maybe don't eat out for a bit" is a pretty charitable reading of what meaningfully trying to avoid Covid or vulnerable family members actually involves.

*Edited for less colourful language.

Supermarkets should introduce times where vulnerable people can shop and stagger entry so you don't get bottlenecks.

They did this in the first lockdown in the local supermarket ... there was about a minute between each shopper.

Regardless if there is lots of it going around, the vulnerable should have the option of avoiding it, at least during the wave.

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