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Oblivian
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  #3313798 28-Nov-2024 13:35
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13,000 respondents is only .25% of population?

And all would probably be the vocal ones wanting their voice heard.

As they say you'll only hear about bad stories, not good ones.

 
 
 
 

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wellygary
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  #3313801 28-Nov-2024 13:41
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quickymart:

 

I dunno why he bothered talking to Voices for Freedom though - they have no medical expertise whatsoever (outside of "Dr Youtube", lol) but here they were telling people not to get vaccinated because..um...?

 

 

Because its a public Royal commission, they are required to listen (and talk) to all the submitter... its how democratic systems and institutions work... 


freitasm
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  #3313802 28-Nov-2024 13:42
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And then we have the minority rule...





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Canuckabroad
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  #3313822 28-Nov-2024 15:07
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Yes 13K responses is a small portion of the population, but statistically that would be a healthy sample size if it were random.  Clearly this isn't random and it's likely the majority of submissions will be from those who had very strong views (primarily anti-vax or anti-mandate) but I don't believe the intention of the commission is to react based on the average response.

 

I'll admit I am concerned when I think that in preparation for the next (potentially worse) pandemic they are suggesting that we may need to be more concerned about people's feelings than about the public well-being, but I'm trying to focus on not being sensitive to criticism of what we did (which I think was very successful for most of the time) and instead remember this is meant to provide additional thoughts for the next one.  Given the way the world is working, we are only going to have more anti-vaxxers for the next one, and that will need to be accounted for.


floydbloke
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  #3313841 28-Nov-2024 15:37
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neb:

 

...

 

That will be the whole reason why he's talking to them, in the same way that if you're making a UFO (technically a UOMEP, Unidentified Optical, Mental, Electronic, or Social Phenomenon) documentary you interview a podiatrist [*] not an aviation engineer.

 

[*] This bit isn't made up, they interviewed a podiatrist about alien technology.

 

 

He saw this weird thing in the sky and obviously thought something was afoot.





Thanks for explaining "plethora".

 

It means a lot.


Handle9
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  #3313866 28-Nov-2024 17:16
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Canuckabroad:

 

Yes 13K responses is a small portion of the population, but statistically that would be a healthy sample size if it were random.  Clearly this isn't random and it's likely the majority of submissions will be from those who had very strong views (primarily anti-vax or anti-mandate) but I don't believe the intention of the commission is to react based on the average response.

 

I'll admit I am concerned when I think that in preparation for the next (potentially worse) pandemic they are suggesting that we may need to be more concerned about people's feelings than about the public well-being, but I'm trying to focus on not being sensitive to criticism of what we did (which I think was very successful for most of the time) and instead remember this is meant to provide additional thoughts for the next one.  Given the way the world is working, we are only going to have more anti-vaxxers for the next one, and that will need to be accounted for.

 

 

The Commision will have considered the quantity of responses, the qualifications of those who made submissions and it's own expertise. The commisoners comprised an epidemiologist, an economist, a former minister and a lawyer. They all appear qualified to assess the submissions.

 

Given that many of the government ministers and officials appeared in person (there were 1600 in person appearances) it seems reasonable that their views have been amply taken into account.

 

From the reporting it seems they looked at the holistic impact of the response. That would seem the most reasonable way to look at it. Everything that was done had positive and negative effects and you can only assess the effectiveness objectively on balance, not in isolation.

 

The only way you effectively prepare for the future is to actually look at the past, not just assume that it was all great. There were a ton of negative impacts of the pandemic. The current economic situation and general malaise is largely a hangover from the pandemic response as is the impact on education. 

 

I think it's quite reasonable to look at what was done with a critical eye and figure out if the juice was worth the squeeze. The people at the time made the best decisions they could, not all of them were correct.


Handle9
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  #3313920 28-Nov-2024 19:18
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The stage one reports are available here https://www.covid19lessons.royalcommission.nz/reports-lessons-learned/

 

I'd strongly suggest reading the summary report. The recommendations seem comprehensive, wellthought through and not very controversial.

 

The media reports seem to be focussed on the submissions rather than the actual content of the report which is focussed on how to prepare for the next pandemic.




mattwnz
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  #3314036 29-Nov-2024 02:27
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The main reason NZs response and elimination was because of the state of the health system, which runs near peak demand most of the time, and the systems for managing such a pandemic were essentially not there . The report says it has changed, moving from 20 DHBs to a single entity. But the fact is that the health system  is now more stretched than ever. Contact tracing seemed to be pretty ineffective once cases spread, and I can't see a large amount of money being spent on a far better system to prepare for another pandemic, and also keeping that system up to date. It only really delayed lockdowns occurring by a matter of weeks. NZ has operated with an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff mentality with so many things and this was one of them. . I think NZ did the right thing in the way it was handled with the first lockdowns. Once vaccination came in, they could have perhaps eased off with the future lockdowns, but NZ didn't get vaccines as quickly as other countries. 

 

However I think NZ should still be giving out free tests to lower demand on the health system. I have recently had it for the first time and it was pretty bad and still got some after effects of it. I caught it off someone who thought they just had a bad cold and didn't have a test. I had tests so got them tested and they tested positive. I know of someone who has recently just come out of hospital as they got it very bad. They had also caught it about 2 months prior but it was mild, but the second time they caught it, they were very ill and were in hospital for quite a while. They were older with a preexisting health condition, but that is who is most vulnerable. My fear is that free vaccinations will also soon stop for most, as a way to cut health costs. 


cddt
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  #3314053 29-Nov-2024 08:03
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Contract tracing was suboptimal - especially the unpreparedness to actually use the bluetooth tracing during the initial phase of an outbreak. We had Dr Bloomfield standing up to show the country how to activate bluetooth tracing in the app in early 2021, but when the delta outbreak occurred in mid-August, it took several weeks for them to start sharing any keys. 

 

And of course the failure to change our strategy when vaccination rates were high meant keeping Auckland in lockdown for months longer than was required. 





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quickymart
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  #3329308 8-Jan-2025 19:21
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freitasm:

 

When being an anti-vaxxer makes you sabotage the national grid: Graham Philip: First sabotage convict imprisoned, attempted to bring down national grid - NZ Herald

 

 

Graham Philip, a 62-year-old IT professional and Covid conspiracy theorist was charged with seven counts of wilful damage last December. The charges were upgraded to seven of sabotage earlier this year. He was also convicted of unlawfully entering agricultural land.

 

The charges relate to alleged attacks on Transpower infrastructure last November, which caused approximately $1.25 million dollars in damage. One of the attacks caused a fire.

 

Nabney said the offending stemmed from Philip’s deep frustration that the concerns of unvaccinated New Zealanders weren’t “taken seriously”, by the government or mainstream media.

 

 

 

The moron got released today, despite still being deemed a high risk:

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/538487/power-grid-saboteur-graham-philip-released-from-prison-but-will-remain-on-electronic-monitoring

 

How long until he tries another equally stupid, dangerous, life-threatening stunt all in the name of getting rid of (his perceived) so-called "government brainwashing"? 🙄


freitasm
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  #3333074 18-Jan-2025 22:00
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@Batman:

 

Every few years, a new type of coronavirus that normally doesn't infect humans mutates in China and infects humans ... have lost count how many now, but makes me think something fishy is going on there ... or maybe just the sheer population of livestock there mixed with massive population of humans? Anyway, it won't be funny if one day it causes a real pandemic.

 

 

Five years ago, today, this was the headline on the BBC: New virus in China 'will have infected hundreds'

 

This thread was created by @Batman just a couple of days later.

 

Five years that changed history.





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Batman

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  #3333077 18-Jan-2025 22:06
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I'm not proud of that post, just as I'm not proud of being batman and not proud of a lot of other posts... I need to change my username...!

Batwing
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  #3333079 18-Jan-2025 22:11
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At least part of the username looks fine to me

freitasm
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  #3333080 18-Jan-2025 22:16
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Username checks out.




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dafman
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  #3333124 19-Jan-2025 09:13
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mattwnz:

 

However I think NZ should still be giving out free tests to lower demand on the health system. I have recently had it for the first time and it was pretty bad and still got some after effects of it. I caught it off someone who thought they just had a bad cold and didn't have a test. I had tests so got them tested and they tested positive. I know of someone who has recently just come out of hospital as they got it very bad. They had also caught it about 2 months prior but it was mild, but the second time they caught it, they were very ill and were in hospital for quite a while. They were older with a preexisting health condition, but that is who is most vulnerable. My fear is that free vaccinations will also soon stop for most, as a way to cut health costs. 

 

 

We have a family member who tested positive two days ago, now isolating in separate part of house. The rest of us are isolating while we wait out to see if we have also picked it up.

 

Friends have expressed surprise that we are still bothering to test, let alone isolate. 


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