2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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19830 posts

Uber Geek

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#2421530 15-Feb-2020 21:08

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Beccara:

I wouldn't say it's nothing, It's just nothing very visible to the general public. With the direct flight ban and screening taking place in Sydney/Singapore/Dubai and more there isn't much more that we can do at the border that wouldn't increase general anxiety. Considering the crap we're seeing so far it's more than justified to take a cautious escalating approach so as to not cause more public harm

Yes, but if you are a NZ national/resident, and fly in, you are allowed. If thats via or from an infected country, including mainland China, you are asked/suggested/advised to self isolate. To me, the Government is doing nothing, we ask the citizens to do it, if they can be bothered.

Don't follow what you mean by "the crap we're seeing so far it's more than justified to take a cautious escalating approach" NZ is taking a cautious approach, at best, and even thats complimentary. We are not taking a Keep It Out approach which is our official stance. Its more like lets not upset anyone, inconvenience anyone, and cross our fingers. Now, if we got a few infected people inside our borders, and lets say for example, the self isolation infected 3 others each, so we have a dozen plus infected. Who would get the blame then?

aspett

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Master Geek

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#2421548 15-Feb-2020 21:42

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tdgeek:

Yes, but if you are a NZ national/resident, and fly in, you are allowed. If thats via or from an infected country, including mainland China, you are asked/suggested/advised to self isolate. To me, the Government is doing nothing, we ask the citizens to do it, if they can be bothered.

Don't follow what you mean by "the crap we're seeing so far it's more than justified to take a cautious escalating approach" NZ is taking a cautious approach, at best, and even thats complimentary. We are not taking a Keep It Out approach which is our official stance. Its more like lets not upset anyone, inconvenience anyone, and cross our fingers. Now, if we got a few infected people inside our borders, and lets say for example, the self isolation infected 3 others each, so we have a dozen plus infected. Who would get the blame then?

It's quite extreme to forcibly quarantine people with no previous positive result, no symptoms, and zero confirmed cases in New Zealand. A forced quarantine is a form of imprisonment, regardless of the connotations of that word. It would not be a balanced response to take that measure right now. People have rights in New Zealand - and until there is evidence of a single case, let alone transmission, the government should not be abusing those rights.

Beccara

1257 posts

Uber Geek

#2421590 15-Feb-2020 21:53

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tdgeek:

Yes, but if you are a NZ national/resident, and fly in, you are allowed. If thats via or from an infected country, including mainland China, you are asked/suggested/advised to self isolate. To me, the Government is doing nothing, we ask the citizens to do it, if they can be bothered.

Don't follow what you mean by "the crap we're seeing so far it's more than justified to take a cautious escalating approach" NZ is taking a cautious approach, at best, and even thats complimentary. We are not taking a Keep It Out approach which is our official stance. Its more like lets not upset anyone, inconvenience anyone, and cross our fingers. Now, if we got a few infected people inside our borders, and lets say for example, the self isolation infected 3 others each, so we have a dozen plus infected. Who would get the blame then?

We're seeing people who haven't even been to China being booted off work for weeks, We're seeing xenophobic crap everywhere towards nz born asians who haven't even left the country! AFAIK every major route into NZ has screening at the departure side. We are in the keep it out phase and what we are seeing globally isn't enough to start kicking off more drastic measure that would ratchet up the social and economic damage. Overseas experience is showing it's not as dangerous or as fatal in a healthy population.

What exactly are you saying we should be doing? Mandatory swabs at the boarder? Shut down all flights from infected countries? Enforced quarantine even in asymptomatic cases? Turn around anyone with a fever? What steps do you feel we are missing to "Keep It Out"

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tdgeek

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#2421630 16-Feb-2020 07:23

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Beccara:

We're seeing people who haven't even been to China being booted off work for weeks, We're seeing xenophobic crap everywhere towards nz born asians who haven't even left the country! AFAIK every major route into NZ has screening at the departure side. We are in the keep it out phase and what we are seeing globally isn't enough to start kicking off more drastic measure that would ratchet up the social and economic damage. Overseas experience is showing it's not as dangerous or as fatal in a healthy population.

What exactly are you saying we should be doing? Mandatory swabs at the boarder? Shut down all flights from infected countries? Enforced quarantine even in asymptomatic cases? Turn around anyone with a fever? What steps do you feel we are missing to "Keep It Out"

I don't see voluntary isolation is a keep it out action. I would prefer an enforced home quarantine as a better measure than an if you can be bothered quarantine. Or we move it past keep it out to the next change which is not keep it out but hope for the best and manage it if we have to. If we get a case here, and then we have the taxi/bus contacts and contacts they had and contacts they had to send to that quarantine location we already have. If its decreed that its not that bad, and we will voluntary quarantine and if and when we have cases we will manage it from there, thats fine, but lets not kid ourselves its a keep it out stage. We have a healthy population, as does China. medical is easy to get there, but its the elderly and others that are the main fatalities, its no different here.

But lets firstly admit we aren't in a keep it out stage, we are allowing nationals in irregardless of where they have been, and please stay home for 14 days if you can manage that.

Tinkerisk

968 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2421662 16-Feb-2020 10:07

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Nice theoretical discussion. The impacts are coming closer. My wife is a doctor in a hospital (here in Germany) and received an alarm call for suspected COVID-19 when shopping at the weekend. The responsible health authority was informed immediately. Let us hope that the two suspected cases will not be confirmed.

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Sidestep

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Ultimate Geek

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#2421706 16-Feb-2020 10:23

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It's not just a theoretical discussion.

In spite of the criticism of Government actions (or perceived inaction) in some posts here and in the media, I think New Zealand authorities have done an admirable job of responding to this crisis without resorting to “fear, misinformation, racism and xenophobia,”

The press release quoted by @freitasm outlines the "precautionary approach" being followed, and the noted importance of balancing of the severity of health risks against societal and economic disruption in the 2017 pandemic plan linked by @Beccara both show the government's able - and trying - to take a reasoned, measured and scientific approach to the effects of a moderate pandemic.

New Zealand's a signatory to the World Health Organization’s International Health Regulations.

Because of this, NZ has an obligation under the IHR - and within 48 hours of their implementation - to inform the WHO of it's public health rationales and justifications when implementing any additional health measures that may "significantly interfere with international traffic".

There's pressure to come up with real - science based - justifications of any restrictions that might be regarded as inconsistent with the International Health Regulations..

It's interesting that many countries, including Australia and the USA likely broke International Law when they immediately imposed blanket restrictions on travellers who'd recently been in China. NZ followed suit, though perhaps in a more measured way, and - hopefully - informing the WHO.

The ICAO (a United Nations agency, and the forum for cooperation in civil aviation among the 193 UN Member States) has pointed out exceeding WHO guidance recommendations without having conducted an appropriate risk assessment is considered to lead to unnecessary and negative impacts, especially for the many vulnerable or isolated populations which rely so importantly on their global aviation connections.

It has launched an information exchange platform called 'Collaborative Arrangement for the Prevention and Management of Public Health Events in Civil Aviation' (CAPSCA) to assist in co-ordinating the international response to events such as this, and decreasing the need for unilateral actions in the future.

Tinkerisk

968 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2421749 16-Feb-2020 10:35

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Really without any panicking: it is not a question of whether, but when the virus will arrive.

Both cases made their way back from China to here (again, Germany, not NZ) by several country hopps and arrived one week before despite of the fact, that flights from China have been immediately cancelled by the carriers. "Happily" the pilots are now responsible to watch their passengers for symptoms.