2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2453037 2-Apr-2020 14:53

@dogstar001: I don't know. I guess it's sort of a moral question. Should young people have to put their lives on hold so some 84 year old can live to be 86. That's essentially what is happening here with COVID19. I see both arguements.

I don't know what world you are currently living on. People of all ages are dying of this. Your comment is ageist, uncalled for. Please refrain from posting this kind of badly thought argument.

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neb

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#2453038 2-Apr-2020 14:54

afe66: My biggest issue with claims that would should have closed earlier is we have the benefit of hindsight. Also sad to say, I think the wider public needs to see actual deaths before they will buy into restrictions. And I know it sounds racists but those deaths need to be from countries the public relates to. Ie not china or Iran. Also there would have been alot of push back from businesses and opposition parties. Would we have passed that gun legislation without the chch shooting?

And that pretty much sums up why it would have been nearly impossible to do more, earlier. Even now, with (checks Worldometer) 47,000 dead, there are still people saying "it's only the flu" and "we shouldn't be in lockdown". For example a friend across town mentioned yesterday that his neighbour has people coming and going all day, and commented that "it's only the flu" and "we should just let the old people die" (that's an actual quote). I think the government took the best balance it could between too early and everyone attacks them because it's not needed, and too late and we end up like the US.

Fred99

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#2453042 2-Apr-2020 14:58

mattwnz:

I think this is also a thing that hasn't been discussed much in the media. Is there any data on the permanent effects and damage that even a mild case can do to you?. I did read that contracting it reduces life expectancy by a year, which I am guessing is an estimated average. But not sure if the damage is less in a mild case, vs a severe case.

I'd expect that severe cases would be far more likely to result in permanent damage than mild, but while deaths are much greater for older severe cases, half of patients needing hospital care are under 50 - they've probably just got a far greater chance of surviving a serious assault to their bodies.

It's similar to SARS, so quite possibly:

Several consequent reports from China on some recovered SARS patients showed severe long-time sequelae. The most typical diseases include, among other things, pulmonary fibrosis, osteoporosis, and femoral necrosis, which have led in some cases to the complete loss of working ability or even self-care ability of people who have recovered from SARS

Anybody of any age who'd want to risk getting C-19 either needs to think much harder about it - or they need their heads read.

dejadeadnz

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#2453083 2-Apr-2020 15:03

People behaving like dropkicks during a crisis - Fletcher Building

On Wednesday staff were given a 12-week pay proposal, where their pay would cut by 70 per cent after the lockdown, while senior executives, the chief executive Ross Taylor and those reporting directly to him, would take a 15 per cent pay cut. Taylor's annual base salary as at June 30 2019 was $2.5 million.

All class! Dicks.

neb

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#2453086 2-Apr-2020 15:06

Rikkitic:
With the spread of infections and deaths in the USA, and ramped up emergency measures around the country, is there any indication at all that Fox News viewers are starting to get uneasy and are beginning to look at other news sources for more accurate information?

No, they'll actually get more fanatical, not less. This is a well-known concept in the field of psychology.

The worrying thing in the US is that they'll need to find an outlet for the discrepancy between what they want to believe and what's actually happening around them. The usual Trump excuses checklist of fake news doesn't work (you can't ignore the death toll), a Democrat or media conspiracy also won't really cut it for the same reason, and what's then left is either the deep state or blaming a minority for it who can be victimised and attacked.

dejadeadnz

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#2453091 2-Apr-2020 15:11

I don't often agree with the Council of Trade Unions but they are right: people need to remember the employers who behave like dicks during these times. For anyone into DYI - buy your stuff from any place but a Placemakers in the future (they are owned by Fletcher Building). Post details of such disgusting behaviour on your Facebook or wherever. Every little bit helps.

dogstar001

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#2453092 2-Apr-2020 15:11

mattwnz:
dogstar001:

I don't know. I guess it's sort of a moral question. Should young people have to put their lives on hold so some 84 year old can live to be 86. That's essentially what is happening here with COVID19. I see both arguements.

This kills people of ALL ages. As a medical person said in a previous post, in their country a lot of the hospitalizations that are coming in are males under 60. Young people can be the big spreaders and are the most infected, which is why the PM is targeting them, and they tend to be more mobile.

I also hate to see what would have happened if we hadn't closed our schools when we did, based on the cluster are one school..

Pandemics have to be controlled.

Sorry you are wrong. If you look at the numbers, it mostly kills the elderly & those with serious pre-existing conditions. Generally people that have led good, long lives but are on their final few years regardless of COVID. It takes the odd healthy under 50 YO. But very rarely. Look at diamond princess. 712 infected accross all ages 11 deaths, all over 70. Young people may be hospitalized for a sveral days but then they are back on their feet.

I don't know. I guess I feel that if this thing can be eliminated in 4-6 weeks then kudos to our PM. If not, then I think that there is a legitimate moral dilemma. To what extent should people have their lives restricted so that elderly people who have already led good long lives, can live a bit longer. Should schools, pre schools & universities be open? What about cafes & restaurants? What about bars and nightclubs? Weekend sports? libraries & swimming pools?

Ge0rge

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#2453093 2-Apr-2020 15:12

neb:
Rikkitic:
With the spread of infections and deaths in the USA, and ramped up emergency measures around the country, is there any indication at all that Fox News viewers are starting to get uneasy and are beginning to look at other news sources for more accurate information?

No, they'll actually get more fanatical, not less. This is a well-known concept in the field of psychology.

The worrying thing in the US is that they'll need to find an outlet for the discrepancy between what they want to believe and what's actually happening around them. The usual Trump excuses checklist of fake news doesn't work (you can't ignore the death toll), a Democrat or media conspiracy also won't really cut it for the same reason, and what's then left is either the deep state or blaming a minority for it who can be victimised and attacked.

Is this where the Chinese will fit in? The U.S. has already begin the rhetoric with "Chinese Disease" etc, and now the release of the "Leaked document" a few posts back.

Sideface

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#2453109 2-Apr-2020 15:17

dejadeadnz:

People behaving like dropkicks during a crisis - Fletcher Building

On Wednesday staff were given a 12-week pay proposal, where their pay would cut by 70 per cent after the lockdown, while senior executives, the chief executive Ross Taylor and those reporting directly to him, would take a 15 per cent pay cut. Taylor's annual base salary as at June 30 2019 was $2.5 million.

All class! Dicks.

Sideface

dogstar001

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#2453110 2-Apr-2020 15:17

freitasm:
@dogstar001: I don't know. I guess it's sort of a moral question. Should young people have to put their lives on hold so some 84 year old can live to be 86. That's essentially what is happening here with COVID19. I see both arguements.

I don't know what world you are currently living on. People of all ages are dying of this. Your comment is ageist, uncalled for. Please refrain from posting this kind of badly thought argument.

Apologies, I don't think my comment was ageist. At least I didn't intend it to be.I though I made a valid point. Some countries Sweden & USA have followed this line of reasoning & are staying open. As I just said if this thing can't be stamped out in 4-6 weeks. Where does that leave us?

cshwone

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#2453111 2-Apr-2020 15:18

dogstar001:

Sorry you are wrong. If you look at the numbers, it mostly kills the elderly & those with serious pre-existing conditions. Generally people that have led good, long lives but are on their final few years regardless of COVID. It takes the odd healthy under 50 YO. But very rarely. Look at diamond princess. 712 infected accross all ages 11 deaths, all over 70. Young people may be hospitalized for a sveral days but then they are back on their feet.

I don't know. I guess I feel that if this thing can be eliminated in 4-6 weeks then kudos to our PM. If not, then I think that there is a legitimate moral dilemma. To what extent should people have their lives restricted so that elderly people who have already led good long lives, can live a bit longer. Should schools, pre schools & universities be open? What about cafes & restaurants? What about bars and nightclubs? Weekend sports? libraries & swimming pools?

I am 64 and in reasonable health. So are you saying I should accept a vastly increased likelihood of an earlier death so you can go out and have a good time?

neb

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#2453112 2-Apr-2020 15:18

Fred99:
I think some of the conspiracy theories could be easily explained - but either Chinese authorities don't seem to be forthcoming - or the signal:noise ratio with conspiracy theory on the interweb makes it impossible to find.

Conspiracy-theory thinking doesn't work like that. For a normal person the reaction to something is along the lines of:

Event -> Likely explanation -> Evidence it's not the case -> Less likely explanation -> ...

For someone who thinks in conspiracy theories its:

Event -> Crazy conspiracy theory, modified as required to fit any objections.

You jump straight from a perfectly straightforward event to the conspiracy theory, bypassing ever looking at the perfectly straightforward explanation.

There's a rather good, if academic paper on this that the APS published a few years ago.

neb

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#2453114 2-Apr-2020 15:21

freitasm:
People are stupid.

"Think about how stupid the average person is, and then consider that 50% of the population are even stupider than that" :-).

Fred99

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#2453115 2-Apr-2020 15:22

cshwone:

I am 64 and in reasonable health. So are you saying I should accept a vastly increased likelihood of an earlier death so you can go out and have a good time?

I think that's exactly what he's saying. I'm surprised his account hasn't been disabled after being warned about ageism.

elpenguino

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#2453116 2-Apr-2020 15:22

dogstar001:
To what extent should people have their lives restricted so that elderly people who have already led good long lives, can live a bit longer.

You're simplifying this , a lot.

The complication is that when people get sick they get medical attention, and as we know , CoVid could put the patient in an ICU. Ignoring the further complications of having infectious patients going through ICUs and non-infected (i.e. vulnerable) patients following, how are we as a society going to cope with a swamped medical system?

I hope you don't plan on having a car crash, heart attack or aneurism while all this is going on.

Or were you suggesting all covid patients rest at home and take paracetamol?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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