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4460 posts

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  #2454147 4-Apr-2020 06:26
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Batman: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120805778/coronavirus-to-swedes-its-the-rest-of-the-world-engaging-in-a-reckless-experiment


It sounds like Sweden thinking is it has enough excess health-care capacity to handle the number of infected.

Considering that Sweden is wealthy, and a heavily socialist country, may be correct.

If so it would be in stark contrast to the US system, which for decades has been pressed to reduce capacity. Ironically this is to reduce costs, but as everyone knows, US health care is the most expensive in the world by far.

I've heard it speculated that either most will eventually catch the virus or be vaccinated (when that comes out).

Assuming all this is correct

Pros: Sweden due to its decades of creating capacity, with its additional expense, will have an economy in much better shape.

Cons: A higher percentage of Swedes will die when compared to Kiwis, because a vaccine doesn't yet exist.

It comes down to Sweden throwing the infirm and old on the bonfire to keep the economy warm for the youth.

Sweden has chosen "we'll put a little effort in controlling the fire, but let nature run its course; we'll save who we can." In a decade, we'll see how that compares to "fight the fire no matter the cost; save as many as possible".

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  #2454149 4-Apr-2020 06:42
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neb: The US has only just gone into something resembling a real lockdown and they're already the worst-hit country in the world, with (at least) two weeks to go before they peak.


Regarding the US, the virus doesn't respect state line. As the old saying goes "it just takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch."

Since the US is experiencing exponential growth, the only limit is the US population.

Again it just takes a few typhoid Mary's to keep the growth continuing unabated.

 
 
 
 


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  #2454151 4-Apr-2020 07:53
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eracode: C’mon - it’s nothing more than a pun, Hon.

The only reason it seems like that is because NZ does not have anti-hispanic racism. No doubt there is plenty available for import on the usual channels. It's unlikely the poster had any intent of this nature. 'Harmless puns' related to our own issues would make the problem related to this post entirely obvious.

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Master Geek


  #2454152 4-Apr-2020 08:09
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Interesting piece in Stuff this morning. The document "Operational Policing Guidelines - Alert Level 4, scenarios for the Frontline" has been released and it seems that the police don't have the power that Mike Bush and Jacinda Ardern would have had us believe earlier on. Of particular interest:  

 

Stuff:

 

JOGGER SCENARIO:

 

In this scenario, police encounter a person or group who drove to go for a run, cycle or surf.

 

"There is no enforcement power available as long as they are maintaining physical distancing from each other," the document says.

 

"People engaging in a leisure or fitness activity within a reasonable distance of their home whilst maintaining appropriate physical distancing is reasonable in the circumstances."

 

 

 




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  #2454153 4-Apr-2020 08:10
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gchiu: Sweden's curve still looks exponential. It's going to become increasingly harder to practice social distancing as the case load increases. And then it will race off.


Yeah I looked at every body's curve. Everyone is heading to the same destination except China. But world is skeptical about China's data. Time will tell.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #2454167 4-Apr-2020 08:52
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gchiu:

 

tdgeek:

 

Racist views? What about your views of the CCP?

 

 

People on many of the youtube videos I've watched (Simone Gao) included, call it CCP virus which although inaccurate fairly lays the blame on the right people.

 

 

Did we assign the same blamefest to the Spanish flu. Middle East, USA when they had their outbreaks, plus Ebola and Nile and all the others? It happens. Probably more worthwhile to blame the countries that have managed it poorly which will affect the global economy more than it should have.


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  #2454171 4-Apr-2020 08:59
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kingdragonfly: I'm not unsympathetic about the racism caused by the virus, and its push-on effect to intimidation and violence against all Asians, not just Chinese

Whether it's Trump daily dose of lies, or the Chinese government ignoring advice before the outbreak on "wet markets" and a delayed response, few if any leaders will both react quickly and be 100% honest publicly.

When things go bad, leaders want the voters to conveniently forget about their involvement in past events. Trump does it; XI does it; everyone does it.

If it's any comfort, there are obvious reason why Scott Morrison reacted pretty quickly. He is definitely racist against Chinese, and really needed a distraction from his miserable performance around the Australian wildfires. It's a classic "do the right thing for the wrong reasons."

I think we all will agree Xi and the communist party's response is many times better than previous events.

All wars bring out the worst and the best in humanity.

Keep up the good work, doc.

 

If you read the news, NZ has and is doing very well. However, many commentaries show that we are doing poor, many things done wrong, not done soon enough. Fail after fail after fail. Id hate to read what the Coalition thread says! I think its fair to say that no country is immune to the political needs to cover their butt or praise themselves. Its just the human way. Aside from politics, no one can hide from the stark reality of their performance in combatting this virus. 


 
 
 
 


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  #2454175 4-Apr-2020 09:08
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freitasm:

 

@Tinkerisk:

 

 

 

Good to see the repatriation going on. Its one thing for me to be working full time WFH and bored thereafter, others stuck at home not working and bored, but for those stuck in another country, and money is probably bleeding from the wallet, and can't get out, that will be huge for them. A colleague has Scottish friends finally booked on a flight out next week. Great. But the next challenge is going from a country where we have control of the virus to USA, UK, Europe where its a minefield  right now.

 

As Fred Dagg said, we don't know how lucky we are.


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  #2454178 4-Apr-2020 09:19
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Browsing social media, it's pretty clear that the 2016 troll army has mobilised to blame China *completely* for the US woes.

 

It is going to lead to horrific racist persecution in the US - and will further destabilise the planet.

 

Trump has officially "softened" his anti-chinese rhetoric simultaneously with the ramping-up of bot armies, the "leaking" of CIA data (that was bullsh*t - a "headline" was leaked with zero data leaked to back it up).

 

They've done this deliberately - it's their only chance to get Trump reelected.

 

 


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  #2454183 4-Apr-2020 09:35
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Batman:
gchiu: Sweden's curve still looks exponential. It's going to become increasingly harder to practice social distancing as the case load increases. And then it will race off.


Yeah I looked at every body's curve. Everyone is heading to the same destination except China. But world is skeptical about China's data. Time will tell.

 

Do you feel we are heading that way as well? I don't, I think we are nailing it. Our cases are rising at broadly 10% per day, so its linear. The vast vast majority of these are where we knowingly imported cases as we are bringing Kiwis back. Thats a known hit, and not internal expansion of the virus. We only have 1% CT although we all agree its more than that.

 

The next week will be interesting as incoming passengers is really drying up, was it about 300 yesterday? So soon, our cases will be internally generated. Add to that that we went to lockdown when CT arrived but had not taken off, that's a huge hit to the virus. We are now testing about double what we had been 3500 vs around 1500 to 1800 daily, yet the cases have not gotten any worse.

 

My opinion is that we sucked up letting Kiwis come back, hit the virus with the lockdown at the right time, so the virus will struggle to expand, let alone expand exponentially. Lets say for example that all incoming international flights stopped. And days later the new cases will be devoid of positives taken from those arrivals as there were no arrivals.

 

Our daily new cases are a vast majority of travellers and travellers contact, so they will be nil. New case total of around 80, may become 18. Internally generated, and we are all still in lockdown. Its looking good I feel. More testing that we only need to focus internally not via airport arrivals lounge.

 

Am I too positive? Maybe, but Im only looking at the math.


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  #2454185 4-Apr-2020 09:40
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Batman:
gchiu: Sweden's curve still looks exponential. It's going to become increasingly harder to practice social distancing as the case load increases. And then it will race off.


Yeah I looked at every body's curve. Everyone is heading to the same destination except China. But world is skeptical about China's data. Time will tell.

 

Think you are making a far too broad and sweeping statement. This seems to be good article on Stuff which is at odds with your ascertation:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120731509/coronavirus-how-hard-how-early-the-numbers-behind-new-zealands-quick-lockdown

 

 


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  #2454187 4-Apr-2020 09:42
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https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/03/politics/uss-theodore-roosevelt-aircraft-carrier-captain-send-off/index.html

 

Sailors support Cpt Brett Crozier even if the temporary secretary of the navy didn't.  Wonder how he'd feel if his child were a sailor on that aircraft carrier?


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  #2454188 4-Apr-2020 09:47
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I wouldn't want to be anyone who looks a little Asian in the SouthEast US.

Lynchings are still within living memory. At the US federal level, it was 2005 before lynchings were outlawed, and literally this year lynchings are now considered a hate crime.

I remember watching a video about "Bronies", men who were "My Little Pony" fans. A man had a large "My Little Pony" sticker on his rear window. One told a story of travelling through Alabama, and pulling over at a small convenience store. He noticed several locals hanging out glared at him and his sticker. When he came out, his rear window was mashed. Nothing stolen.

It doesn't take much to set off a red neck, and Alabama red necks are special kind of mean.

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  #2454189 4-Apr-2020 09:51
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So we all stay home, we use more water, electricity and gas. These utility companies seem to be keeping quiet while they reaps the benefits of increased revenue.

 

Our rates have not reduced albeit we don't use libraries or other council run community funded and we aren't damaging the roads as much.

 

Its going be a weird day when we come back to normal and even think how we transition to that.

 

 


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  #2454194 4-Apr-2020 10:07
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sqishy:

 

So we all stay home, we use more water, electricity and gas. These utility companies seem to be keeping quiet while they reaps the benefits of increased revenue.

 

Our rates have not reduced albeit we don't use libraries or other council run community funded and we aren't damaging the roads as much.

 

 

 

 

I dont follow that point. Not everyone is equal. Do you want utllity companies to give free services? Given that petrol usage has plummeted do we give money to BP etc? Why would rates decrease? The only reasons I see, is to give financial help to ratepayers as some will be on reduced income. Or they fire employees and give a small discount. Doesn't make any sense. The best these businesses can do is to cater for overdue bills, assist in that manner. As many are.  


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