2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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564 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2457317 8-Apr-2020 13:27

MikeB4: Where the heck was my sensationalist statements? Don't put your poor comprehension on me.

Sorry Mike, I've been through the last few pages since I made my original post and you are completely in the wrong here.

You made a claim that the NZDF was being deployed inferring a context of them manning roadblocks, checkpoints etc for Easter. I did a Google News search and saw no such news articles stating this hence why I called you out.

You have made several claims without any evidence - it is your poor comprehension of what is actually happening that is causing issues. You read a story, perceive it incorrectly, then come here and made false statements passed off as fact. A lot of people have been doing this over the last couple of weeks.

I fully support using the NZDF to do a job like this, especially in the lead up to Easter, however as mentioned there is no evidence it will be occurring.

Jase2985

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#2457319 8-Apr-2020 13:32

i believe his son works for the NZDF (Army?) so may have some some information from him.

Still there is no curent indication from the government that the NZDF will be deploying. Preparing to deploy, yes.

60 odd senior level officers etc have been supplementing differing government departments to help throughout the crisis so far

bmt

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Ultimate Geek

#2457322 8-Apr-2020 13:45

If he has an inside source then he should say so. This is what he did say though:

MikeB4:

bmt:

Got a source for that deployment?

Just look at the various NZ press sites. The PM also advised same in her press conference.

neb

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#2457325 8-Apr-2020 13:54

freitasm:
I think you folks see the borders as not "closed" because New Zealanders are allowed to return home. We don't however allow other nationals to enter the country anymore. This, to me is closed borders.

There's been assorted posts on people not doing the right thing but to counteract that there's also a lot of people who are following the rules. For example in our cul-de-sac the neighbours chat over the fence or when getting mail or putting out the rubbish, and someone mentioned that they hadn't seen the folks from a certain house for quite some time. Later another neighbour pointed out that the people there had picked their parents up from the airport a while back and had been in strict isolation ever since, no contact with anyone. As long as we get enough people like that we should be OK, we can scrape by with most people being mostly compliant.

dejadeadnz

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#2457336 8-Apr-2020 13:58

GV27:

"Doing your best" isn't just a blanket excuse for whether a response is appropriate is lacking in some way.

I think her concerns were warranted given the talk of something like 1 in 5 hospitality businesses just not reopening after lockdown. That's a lot of jobs gone.

Sure - by all means hold the powers that be to account. But do it intelligently and with a degree of realism/understanding that hospitality businesses are a luxury during these times. Also don't try to shift the lack of management/structural issues in the industry to everyone else. There's an excess supply of hospitality businesses -- a lot of them are low quality, lack any kind of differentiation, and were unsustainably relying on temporary tourist workers to survive. These people need to own their own parts of the problem instead of just firing potshots.

TeaLeaf

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#2457341 8-Apr-2020 14:09

Germany surprisingly with sars-2 seems much like their property market being healthy always sticking near the 100 and never having crazy volatile markets, like NZs. Their mortality rate considering number of cases is relatively low with 2000 deaths from 107k~ cases. One of the lowest if not the lowest from any majorly infected country.

Another thing they are doing, they have set out to study HOW the virus spreads. People assume its the same as any flu, ie the 2m social distancing (which should be 4m if it is to be believed). So they are studying everything from whether pets can spread it to pre existing "thoughts" on how it is transmitted. Health officials assume they know how it is spread but this scientific analysis is aimed at how Germany is to deal with sars-2 in the coming years. So they are studying everything from house holds to cafes. Obviously they would be sharing the outcome (well, I assume any country would share such knowledge immediately, wouldnt they lol).

mattwnz

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#2457345 8-Apr-2020 14:13

neb:
freitasm:

I think you folks see the borders as not "closed" because New Zealanders are allowed to return home. We don't however allow other nationals to enter the country anymore. This, to me is closed borders.

There's been assorted posts on people not doing the right thing but to counteract that there's also a lot of people who are following the rules. For example in our cul-de-sac the neighbours chat over the fence or when getting mail or putting out the rubbish, and someone mentioned that they hadn't seen the folks from a certain house for quite some time. Later another neighbour pointed out that the people there had picked their parents up from the airport a while back and had been in strict isolation ever since, no contact with anyone. As long as we get enough people like that we should be OK, we can scrape by with most people being mostly compliant.

I think the experts are saying that the borders are not closed to the 'virus'. It doesn't matter whether they are NZers returning home or other people coming in, the virus doesn't discriminate on who it infects. Hence why the opposition are calling for all people to be quarantined, to make sure the border is 'watertight'. You only need a few people not following the rules with self isolation, (and I know of someone who returned to NZ who didn't self isolate, and they were reported), for it to spread.

networkn

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#2457347 8-Apr-2020 14:17

dejadeadnz:

GV27:

"Doing your best" isn't just a blanket excuse for whether a response is appropriate is lacking in some way.

I think her concerns were warranted given the talk of something like 1 in 5 hospitality businesses just not reopening after lockdown. That's a lot of jobs gone.

Sure - by all means hold the powers that be to account. But do it intelligently and with a degree of realism/understanding that hospitality businesses are a luxury during these times. Also don't try to shift the lack of management/structural issues in the industry to everyone else. There's an excess supply of hospitality businesses -- a lot of them are low quality, lack any kind of differentiation, and were unsustainably relying on temporary tourist workers to survive. These people need to own their own parts of the problem instead of just firing potshots.

You are talking about two different issues here. You are talking about how "bad" the restaurant industry is, and how many low quality hospo places there are, but they existed prior to the pandemic and with appropriate guidance could plan and potentially remain open afterwards as well, paying those people who work for them meaning those people will not become a burden on the Government/taxpayer in the short term. Without some idea of how the lockdown ends, how can they plan? Communication is the key here. They are asking for clear communication. Even if the news is bad, then people can plan for it.

mattwnz

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#2457348 8-Apr-2020 14:18

TeaLeaf:

Germany surprisingly with sars-2 seems much like their property market being healthy always sticking near the 100 and never having crazy volatile markets, like NZs. Their mortality rate considering number of cases is relatively low with 2000 deaths from 107k~ cases. One of the lowest if not the lowest from any majorly infected country.

Another thing they are doing, they have set out to study HOW the virus spreads. People assume its the same as any flu, ie the 2m social distancing (which should be 4m if it is to be believed). So they are studying everything from whether pets can spread it to pre existing "thoughts" on how it is transmitted. Health officials assume they know how it is spread but this scientific analysis is aimed at how Germany is to deal with sars-2 in the coming years. So they are studying everything from house holds to cafes. Obviously they would be sharing the outcome (well, I assume any country would share such knowledge immediately, wouldnt they lol).

Germany are doing a huge amount of testing, which is likely why their death toll is low. eg they are picking up far more people who have it. The director general of health did say a few days ago, that in countries where the death toll is low, it is likely due to them doing a lot more and wider testing. Where the percentage is high, a significant number of people wouldn't be getting tested who have it. In the UK I was watching the BBC news and they had a doctor who said that they believed up to 40% of people in the UK had already had it but didn't show much or any symptoms, and he was all for herd immunity. It is interesting about the number of asymptomatic, because that apparently makes up approximately 30% of cases, which would have to be added to the numbers in NZ to get a full picture, because the vast majority of those wouldn't have been tested in NZ.

Does anyone know how Australia's testing compares to NZ's, eg is there a website showing how much testing each country is doing? Testing is one of the keys in this.

PolicyGuy

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#2457349 8-Apr-2020 14:18

GV27:

"Doing your best" isn't just a blanket excuse for whether a response is appropriate is lacking in some way.

I think her concerns were warranted given the talk of something like 1 in 5 hospitality businesses just not reopening after lockdown. That's a lot of jobs gone.

A lot of hospitality businesses have closed and I expect will not re-open: I would not be at all surprised if the proportion is not more than 20%. Unfortunately there is absolutely nothing the government can do about it, these former businesses now have a completely unsustainable business model.

Some businesses depended on foreign tourist customers. These customers are gone for at least a year, until

there is an effective and available vaccine, and
there are enough air flights available for mass tourism to occur, and
the overseas tourists feel confident to travel to far-away places like NZ and have the money to do so - which may be a lot more money than was needed a year ago, depending largely on the cost of air flights. I think this will rule out a lot of backpackers for an extended period.

Some businesses depended on foreign tourist workers, some on legitimate working visas, others illegals being paid cash under the table. Mostly these businesses have the same issues as those depending on foreign tourist customers.

In both cases, if the foreign tourists aren't coming, the businesses are either going to have to completely change their operating model or go bust.
In my view, those tourists won't be coming until next northern spring at the earliest, i.e. a whole year away
:-( :-( :-(

kingdragonfly

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#2457358 8-Apr-2020 14:31

mentalinc:
Sideface: The Washington Post is giving a lot of positive coverage to New Zealand's coronavirus campaign

The reporter is a kiwi (currently in NZ)... so international press is bit of a stretch...

I sent an email to two typical Americans, in completely different states. Neither are "news hounds."

They both said they'd seen PM Jacinda Ardern mentioned more than once yesterday.

We sometimes forget she's quite the media darling in the states, and often held up to contrast Trump.

neb

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#2457360 8-Apr-2020 14:34

Fred99:
FWIW, as more small scale clinical trials are reporting that (Hydroxy)Chloroquine doesn't work, the President's supporters are flooding the interweb with character assassination of the medical researchers and institutions, even accusing them of child abuse blah blah BS.

That's one thing I've noticed about Trump supporters, they've got a premade excuse for every single thing he does. No matter what crazy thing he does there's always an excuse ready to deal with it. They must spend hours each day doing nothing but looking for excuses for his behaviour, I barely acknowledge his existence outside of "every circus needs its clown" but they can take any random event on any day and produce the official excuse for it. I've never seen anyone aged more than about 3 who needs to have their behaviour constantly apologised for like this.

neb

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#2457386 8-Apr-2020 14:37

freitasm:
I think Ardern is ok.

I don't think Jacinda or Cindy are ok.

It also depends on how it's said, I've heard several references to Aunty Jacinda, but in an affectionate sort of way, the person who's looking out for us. So it very much depends on context...

networkn

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#2457387 8-Apr-2020 14:37

neb:
Fred99:

FWIW, as more small scale clinical trials are reporting that (Hydroxy)Chloroquine doesn't work, the President's supporters are flooding the interweb with character assassination of the medical researchers and institutions, even accusing them of child abuse blah blah BS.

That's one thing I've noticed about Trump supporters, they've got a premade excuse for every single thing he does. No matter what crazy thing he does there's always an excuse ready to deal with it. They must spend hours each day doing nothing but looking for excuses for his behaviour, I barely acknowledge his existence outside of "every circus needs its clown" but they can take any random event on any day and produce the official excuse for it. I've never seen anyone aged more than about 3 who needs to have their behaviour constantly apologised for like this.

This isn't Trump specific, this is the way a certain percentage of all supporters of all things behave.

neb

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#2457403 8-Apr-2020 14:43

networkn:
A ex physio/chiropracter once told me 90% of his job was keeping peoples minds busy whilst nature takes it's course.

I saw some medical stats from a meta-analysis many years ago which said that of the class of cases presented to GPs, without treatment 70% got better by themselves, 20% stayed the same, and 10% got worse [citation needed]. The study then went on to discuss why this is how faith healing and similar things work.

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