2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2457632 8-Apr-2020 17:45

mentalinc:
frankv:

No! That's the whole point of our welfare system. NO-ONE starves.

I'm not sure the system has been setup for business owners to pay all their other business expenses (it all seems to be focused on employee payments). and loans from banks.. the loans from banks are not free...

Worst case, close the business. No expenses, no loan. Still no one starves.

Am I wrong in understanding that banks are allowing people to pay only interest, not principal? Does that not apply to businesses?

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GV27

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#2457641 8-Apr-2020 18:14

frankv:
Worst case, close the business. No expenses, no loan. Still no one starves.

Am I wrong in understanding that banks are allowing people to pay only interest, not principal? Does that not apply to businesses?

"Close the business" = no expenses? Do you mean liquidate the business or just put it to sleep? You do understand businesses have commitments like leases that go on even if you can't open the doors? Creditors to pay? GST, PAYE, etc. These don't just go away because you can't open the doors.

"Just closing" a business isn't that straight-forward if you've used your family home as security for a business loans.

As for the business loan products, my experience atm is that these are a work-in-progress - the Government has told the banks how it should work but the banks have to come up with a brand new product which isn't easy.

neb

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#2457645 8-Apr-2020 18:38

I was watching a rather scary video clip of a woman who'd just came from a public church service in one of the numerous states that still allow them (!!). Not only had she been in a crowded space filled with other people, possibly infected, but she knew she was safe because she was "covered in the blood of Jesus" (her quote). I wonder if this is more an evangelical/pentecostalist thing in the US or a general Christian thing? The other Abrahamic religions certainly don't have it, Islam famously tells you "Tie [your camel] and trust in Allah" (al-Tirmidhī), and I'm not familiar with the teaching from Judaism but being a quite pragmatic faith I'd assume it's along similar lines.

Not trying to start a religious war, just curious about different faiths' approaches to the current situation, and whether there are regional variations, e.g. I know a number of people here who have attended Zoom-based church gatherings with no need for physical contact. Not sure how communion works with that, meaning what provision there is for doing it when there's no contact possible.

neb

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#2457682 8-Apr-2020 19:09

Just saw a comment from a doctor that they're being absolutely killed by cellphone charges because (almost) all their work is now being done by cellphone rather than in person, and they're asking people to deal with them on land lines if possible. If there's anyone from Vodafone/Spark reading this, perhaps you guys could waive celphone charges over some base amount for medical clinics/GPs/nurses for a couple of months...

frankv

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#2457689 8-Apr-2020 19:18

GV27:
frankv:
Worst case, close the business. No expenses, no loan. Still no one starves.

Am I wrong in understanding that banks are allowing people to pay only interest, not principal? Does that not apply to businesses?

"Close the business" = no expenses? Do you mean liquidate the business or just put it to sleep? You do understand businesses have commitments like leases that go on even if you can't open the doors? Creditors to pay? GST, PAYE, etc. These don't just go away because you can't open the doors.

"Just closing" a business isn't that straight-forward if you've used your family home as security for a business loans.

I did say worst case, and meant close the business. And hadn't considered the family home as collateral... fair comment there.

But people still won't starve.

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#2457693 8-Apr-2020 19:24

neb: Just saw a comment from a doctor that they're being absolutely killed by cellphone charges because (almost) all their work is now being done by cellphone rather than in person, and they're asking people to deal with them on land lines if possible. If there's anyone from Vodafone/Spark reading this, perhaps you guys could waive celphone charges over some base amount for medical clinics/GPs/nurses for a couple of months...

I know that InspireNet have made provisions for those locked down in barracks to have internet free for the duration of the lockdown. Anyone who had purchased a pre-pay pack from them already this month has had another pack of the same value added to their account that won't get used until May. Full credit to Inspire for doing this, I know it is most appreciated.

Be great if some of the other telcos could get on board too.

mentalinc

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#2457699 8-Apr-2020 19:41

I'm wondering if the data thread can model when we can expect this thread to reach 500 pages?

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ezbee

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#2457702 8-Apr-2020 19:42

Early isolation, like Taiwan would have bought more space.

But...

I remember the parade of industry leaders , personalities and such lobbying government to stay any action.
We had Heraford Conference, Cruise liners , all manner of other things, and a raft of New Zealanders returning to normal lives directly from their overseas trips.

Thank goodness we discouraged overseas students.
Imagine having to provide pastoral care , compensation etc for 10's of thousands .

What is done is done , that is the unchangeable past.
Thus the choice we necessarily made for a strict lock-down while we could, to protect our Healthcare so they could protect us.

Meanwhile in Taiwan near the forefront of this outbreak , the tally is 373 cases !.
Children go to school, public transport runs , the worlds largest semiconductor foundry keeps running along with other businesses, people can travel though all masked up.

With memory of lessons from SARS, Bird Flu and Swine Flu.
Taiwan went very early on screening flights when WHO guidance was uncertain, 31st Dec.
Making understanding this new threat a priority , building testing capability and expanding PPE manufaturing.
Military dispatched some soldiers to staff extra PPE production lines , identified immediately as a critical item.
Companies established new PPE production as well.
(Production reached 9.2 million per day in march in masks alone) .

Banned Cruise chips on 6th Feb.

Business is overall in a much better position than us.
Still Covid R value means only a small slip has a high price, battle continues.

Hopefully we can get to this position after another 2 weeks, or so, if we stay the course .

Covid does not hear your "but I just wanna" , "make an exception for me"

Have a great quiet and contemplative Easter with your bubblemates !

Edit ( Replaced "Taiwan at forefront" , to more correct " Taiwan near the forefront )

mattwnz

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#2457703 8-Apr-2020 19:46

Anyone come across any heat maps of NZ, showing where all the lockdown offences are occurring?

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#2457749 8-Apr-2020 19:55

BBC News - Coronavirus: Discarded disposable gloves on the street

Dan Giannopoulos explains what drew him to start photographing the discarded plastic gloves he found on the street as the coronavirus began to affect the way of life in the UK.

(click to view)

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mentalinc

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#2457751 8-Apr-2020 19:59

So gross, and what were they doing that they needed gloves and then didn't in the middle of the street?

I guess we don;'t have medical waste bins at home... "I don't want that virus in my bin, I'll chuck it on the street."

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frankv

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#2457752 8-Apr-2020 20:02

neb: I was watching a rather scary video clip of a woman who'd just came from a public church service in one of the numerous states that still allow them (!!). Not only had she been in a crowded space filled with other people, possibly infected, but she knew she was safe because she was "covered in the blood of Jesus" (her quote). I wonder if this is more an evangelical/pentecostalist thing in the US or a general Christian thing? The other Abrahamic religions certainly don't have it, Islam famously tells you "Tie [your camel] and trust in Allah" (al-Tirmidhī), and I'm not familiar with the teaching from Judaism but being a quite pragmatic faith I'd assume it's along similar lines.

Not trying to start a religious war, just curious about different faiths' approaches to the current situation, and whether there are regional variations, e.g. I know a number of people here who have attended Zoom-based church gatherings with no need for physical contact. Not sure how communion works with that, meaning what provision there is for doing it when there's no contact possible.

I think it's not specific to any one religion. Any holy book can be read as saying a holy death is a good thing and leads to heaven. If you believe this, then logically it's not a bad trade... lose a few years of a not very pleasant life, gain eternal happiness. And for some people, a holy life also guarantees entry... again, not a bad trade, a few years of doing good deeds leads to heaven. So, if you've been good, death isn't to be feared or avoided. And this in itself gives happiness; don't worry about *anything*, the deity will protect and provide. And perhaps more than provide... the deity will look after holy people, make sure that no harm comes to them, and even give them good things. But this does depend on utter and complete belief. And tithing and physical attendance at church, if sect leaders are to be believed.

So, in this context, the woman doesn't care about covid-19. If she's sufficiently holy, the Lord will make sure she doesn't catch it, no matter whether she social distances or not. And one of the key things to make sure she's one of the chosen is going to church. In fact, going to church when it's really dangerous *proves* how holy she is, and therefore improves her chances. And, if she should get sick, well, it's God's will, so don't worry about it. And she'll certainly go to heaven, having proved her piety.

Fred99

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#2457765 8-Apr-2020 20:13

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3078840/coronavirus-low-antibody-levels-raise-questions-about

“About 30 per cent of patients failed to develop high titers of neutralising antibodies after Covid-19 infection. However, the disease duration of these patients compared to others was similar," they said.

The team also found that antibody levels rose with age, with people in the 60-85 age group displaying more than three times the amount of antibodies as people in the 15-39 age group.

The low amounts of antibodies could affect herd immunity, resistance to the disease among the general population to stop its spread.

Yikes - that's not good.

Pre-print paper: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365v1

kingdragonfly

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#2457770 8-Apr-2020 20:21

neb: I was watching a rather scary video clip of a woman who'd just came from a public church service in one of the numerous states that still allow them (!!). Not only had she been in a crowded space filled with other people, possibly infected, but she knew she was safe because she was "covered in the blood of Jesus" (her quote). I wonder if this is more an evangelical/pentecostalist thing in the US or a general Christian thing?

Having faith in God's protection is no stronger/weaker among evangelicals than other conservative religions. In Iran, some idiots were encouraging Muslim worshipers to lick a shrine.

I can't speak to other non-Christian faiths, but there's a lot of conmen / hucksters among evangelicals. I'd say for every God fearing evangelical preacher, there's another in it just for the money, sex, or power.

I actually worked briefly for a conman. Our two families were close, and literally no one in their family were Christian. He never ever mentioned Jesus to anyone who lived closeby.

We would literally go around the South looking for businesses that had signs out front like "Jesus is Lord," "Jesus is the reason for the season," "Trust in God", "You must be born again" or various shorthand like "John 3:16" or "John 3:1-21"

He'd then go inside without me, praise Jesus, and try to sell them whatever technical crap we were carrying. He was surprisingly successful. I'd be responsible for the installation.

A conman evangelical primary weapon to fleecing his flock is four steps.

1) "Minimize": Your eternal reward is in heaven, or your eternal punishment is in hell; either way your time on Earth is brief.

2) "the reward": calling upon the victim to give your money to God, at least a 10% titching, and God will give you back even greater wealth, or if you're sick, you'll be healed.

3) "transferal": the conman explains that he is God's exclusive representative, so give him your money, even if that means not paying medical and utilities bills.

4) "the punishment": if you don't pay, you're cursed.

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#2457773 8-Apr-2020 20:24

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

The New York Times - Newest ‘essential service providers’: Easter bunny, tooth fairy.

today

Following the lead of New Zealand’s prime minister, the leaders of Canada’s two most populous provinces have given two particular service providers special status.

Doug Ford, the premier of Ontario, officially proclaimed the Easter bunny an “essential service provider” thus freeing the seasonal visitor to make its rounds on Sunday.

But it won’t be business as usual for the bearer of chocolate eggs.

The Easter bunny, the order states, “shall not deliver Easter treats in parks, playgrounds and all other outdoor recreational amenities as described in Ontario Regulation 104/20.” ...

In Quebec, François Legault, the province’s premier, sternly reminded residents that gathering to celebrate Easter was not allowed, but he assured children that the work of the tooth fairy had been declared essential.

“I want to assure all parents that the tooth fairy has immunity against the coronavirus - there is no danger.” ...

EDIT - Meanwhile, in Western Australia ...

(click to view)

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