2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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574 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2458404 9-Apr-2020 14:47

dejadeadnz:

freitasm:

Everyone arriving from today to be in quarantine for 14 days.

This was the one big ideological blind spot in the government's response. With that plugged and provided people stay the course during level 4, we might yet be the first western country to manage to eliminate COVID-19. Fingers crossed.

Please explain how it was ideological.

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neb

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#2458409 9-Apr-2020 14:52

Fred99:
Batman:

according to Sky, herd immunity is actively discussed, at least in AU

In that case, actively discussed by Murdoch media shills (with zero expertise on the subject) interviewing each other.

I half-listened to it in the background and it literally was three Sky media people interviewing each other. I'm not sure if your comment was meant as snark but it's actually the case.

tdgeek

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#2458412 9-Apr-2020 14:55

DarthKermit:

Yep, I knew the police would be catching retards trying to get away for an Easter break.

Also saying we will keep an eye on this, they may find when they go back home, they get turned back.

That would be perfect, but we are too soft. I think the public know they are 1000% safe, they know they will get educated and encouraged, its a zero risk of presecution or a fine, so its worth the risk. Just abusing the system meant to save their lives

mattwnz

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#2458414 9-Apr-2020 14:55

debo:

Dingbatt: I wonder how they are going to manage the asymptomatic and sub-clinical cases that could be sitting there waiting to be let out into the wider population.

How many people are there that have ‘a bit of a tickly throat’ that haven’t met the threshold to be tested? It is after all the start of the cold and flu season. It only takes one to become patient zero in a new outbreak. I’m assuming that’s what the second two weeks of the lockdown seek to achieve.

The authorities (quite rightly) crash dived the submarine into the lockdown and have then been trimming things out in the depths. The difficult part will be getting back to the surface.

I wish the antibody tests were widely available.

I wish we had competent journalists. This one question they should be asking. We have been testing asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic people (usually close contacts like the school down south). I would like to know if anybody in NZ has tested positive without any symptoms.

Certainly people overseas, and in Oz have tested positive. Infact one of NZs early cases, which was the person who had come in from Australia who visited a Wellington cafe, tested positive, even though he said he had no symptoms. Likewise this case tested positive but had no symptoms https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=12319719

dejadeadnz

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#2458423 9-Apr-2020 14:57

bmt:

Please explain how it was ideological.

I view it certainly as one that's not based on expert's views and evidence and where the government has unwisely resisted the step for too long despite the overwhelming evidence of its benefits. That decision seems to be driven off a worldview that people who were still gallivanting around the world when all reputable authorities were calling for people to return home (I fully acknowledge that some would have actively sought to return ASAP but were stymied in their efforts) can be trusted on faith to respect any voluntary quarantine. I view that as pretty idealistic.

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#2458425 9-Apr-2020 14:58

Fred99:
Just a personal observation about illness of the nasty kind, people tend to look for reasons why someone else got it - and they didn't, and use it to create a myth that they won't. Sometimes they might be partly correct (ie they might not smoke, or go for runs etc), but more often they're wildly delusional, "it's not in our family" or "I'm a vegan - meat is the reason!".

There's a lot of research around this from the area of risk perception, for example the closer you are to smoking deaths the less likely you are to smoke. You can actually graph the data, the ordering is radiologist << lung doctor << doctors << everyone else. People really require direct involvement in something to be influenced by it, for example in the US in the 1930s farmers were shown tables and charts demonstrating how much they'd increase their yield if they adopted agricultural advances, but it wasn't until they saw the results directly from early adopters near them that they signed up for it. Similarly with health, most people won't take it seriously until either someone they know directly or a famous person (the halo effect) gets hit by it.

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#2458426 9-Apr-2020 14:59

If of interest, I posted a plot in the data & analysis thread showing a very recent explosion of local cases in Singapore following a spike in cases in the second half of March (#2458399). A very convincing demonstration of why strict quarantine of incoming passengers is needed.

It is essential the measures announced today are adhered to fully. A little concerned about the managed isolation for asymptomatic arrivals. Guess we need to see full details especially around being allowed to go out for exercise: 'go out' where; potential for contamination in lifts etc within the hotels? The Singapore data show that this needs to be very tight.

Batman

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#2458431 9-Apr-2020 15:04

tdgeek:

DarthKermit:

Yep, I knew the police would be catching retards trying to get away for an Easter break.

Also saying we will keep an eye on this, they may find when they go back home, they get turned back.

That would be perfect, but we are too soft. I think the public know they are 1000% safe, they know they will get educated and encouraged, its a zero risk of presecution or a fine, so its worth the risk. Just abusing the system meant to save their lives

one of the benefits of not living in a communist state or under a dictatorship. but this is changing thanks to covid? ... hopefully not to NZ

FineWine

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#2458434 9-Apr-2020 15:10

Some experiences of the confined.....

* Half of us are going to come out of this quarantine as amazing cooks. The other half will come out with a drinking problem.

* I used to spin that toilet paper like I was on Wheel of Fortune. Now I turn it like I'm cracking a safe.

* I need to practice social-distancing from the refrigerator.

* Still haven't decided where to go for Easter ----- The Living Room or The Bedroom.

* PSA: every few days try your jeans on just to make sure they fit. Pyjamas will have you believe all is well in the kingdom.

* Homeschooling is going well. 2 students suspended for fighting and 1 teacher fired for drinking on the job.

* I don't think anyone expected that when we changed the clocks we'd go from Standard Time to the Twilight Zone.

* This morning I saw a neighbour talking to her cat. It was obvious she thought her cat understood her. I came into my house, told my dog..... we laughed a lot.

* So, after this quarantine.....will the producers of My 600 Pound Life just find me or do I find them?

* Quarantine Day 5: Went to this restaurant called THE KITCHEN. You have to gather all the ingredients and make your own meal. I have no clue how this place is still in business.

* My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.

* Day 5 of Homeschooling: One of these little monsters called in a bomb threat.

* I'm so excited --- it's time to take out the garbage. What should I wear?

* I hope the weather is good tomorrow for my trip to Puerto Backyarda. I'm getting tired of Los Livingroom.

* Classified Ad: Single man with toilet paper seeks woman with hand sanitizer for good clean fun.

* Day 6 of Homeschooling: My child just said "I hope I don't have the same teacher next year".... I'm offended.

* Classified Ad: Single man with toilet paper seeks woman with hand sanitizer for good clean fun.

* Time for a Hot Cross Bun, Communal Wine, Easter Egg, Wine, Easter Egg, Spirit, 50gm bar of chocolate, anti-reflux tabs, panadol, lie down.

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tdgeek

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#2458437 9-Apr-2020 15:10

Batman:

tdgeek:

Also saying we will keep an eye on this, they may find when they go back home, they get turned back.

That would be perfect, but we are too soft. I think the public know they are 1000% safe, they know they will get educated and encouraged, its a zero risk of presecution or a fine, so its worth the risk. Just abusing the system meant to save their lives

one of the benefits of not living in a communist state or under a dictatorship. but this is changing thanks to covid? ... hopefully not to NZ

Im not sure what you are on.

If you feel that enforcing on these idiots, while the rest of us do our best for the common good, is tantamount to a dictatotship, or a communist state, well I'm gobsmacked. If you prefer not to have Courts, or laws or the preference of safety, I guess that's an opinion

Batman

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#2458447 9-Apr-2020 15:22

tdgeek:

Also saying we will keep an eye on this, they may find when they go back home, they get turned back.

That would be perfect, but we are too soft. I think the public know they are 1000% safe, they know they will get educated and encouraged, its a zero risk of presecution or a fine, so its worth the risk. Just abusing the system meant to save their lives

one of the benefits of not living in a communist state or under a dictatorship. but this is changing thanks to covid? ... hopefully not to NZ

Im not sure what you are on.

If you feel that enforcing on these idiots, while the rest of us do our best for the common good, is tantamount to a dictatotship, or a communist state, well I'm gobsmacked. If you prefer not to have Courts, or laws or the preference of safety, I guess that's an opinion

you are the one who said they are not going to be enforced not me. by the way i have no power to enforce it, to make them enforce it, to make them not enforce it.

tdgeek

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#2458457 9-Apr-2020 15:32

Batman:

tdgeek:

Also saying we will keep an eye on this, they may find when they go back home, they get turned back.

That would be perfect, but we are too soft. I think the public know they are 1000% safe, they know they will get educated and encouraged, its a zero risk of presecution or a fine, so its worth the risk. Just abusing the system meant to save their lives

one of the benefits of not living in a communist state or under a dictatorship. but this is changing thanks to covid? ... hopefully not to NZ

Im not sure what you are on.

If you feel that enforcing on these idiots, while the rest of us do our best for the common good, is tantamount to a dictatotship, or a communist state, well I'm gobsmacked. If you prefer not to have Courts, or laws or the preference of safety, I guess that's an opinion

you are the one who said they are not going to be enforced not me. by the way i have no power to enforce it, to make them enforce it, to make them not enforce it.

You missed out Also saying we will keep an eye on this, they may find when they go back home, they get turned back. Does that say not enforced?

Maybe you are right, enforcement is bad. So we don't become a Government type that you allude to. We can always repeat the Level 4, no worries.

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#2458459 9-Apr-2020 15:34

elpenguino:

freitasm:

From CNN today:

Wow, you couldn't get a more favourable view of NZ and Ardern's leadership.

Any Republican will tell you that CNN is a socialist channel that deliberately makes Trump look bad. And therefore it can't be trusted.

mattwnz

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#2458461 9-Apr-2020 15:35

dejadeadnz:

bmt:

Please explain how it was ideological.

I view it certainly as one that's not based on expert's views and evidence and where the government has unwisely resisted the step for too long despite the overwhelming evidence of its benefits. That decision seems to be driven off a worldview that people who were still gallivanting around the world when all reputable authorities were calling for people to return home (I fully acknowledge that some would have actively sought to return ASAP but were stymied in their efforts) can be trusted on faith to respect any voluntary quarantine. I view that as pretty idealistic.

Apparently it was all to do with not having the resources / accommodation for them based on the huge incoming flow, so self isolation was seen as the only option, even though you only need a few to not do it properly , for leaks to occur. But I would have thought they could have restricted that incoming flow, to a level that they could cope with it. Closing the borders should have provided that ability to control in incoming numbers of NZers returning from overseas, so all could be quarantined properly. It would have led to delays and inconvenience for travelers. But if all countries were doing this, then it could have been managed.

I suspect huge changes will come to international travel in the future, similar to what occurred after 9/11.

mattwnz

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#2458464 9-Apr-2020 15:37

tdgeek:

We can always repeat the Level 4, no worries.

I don't think that is going to be very popular. IMO it is better to extend level 4 to say 6-8 weeks to make sure we eliminate it, than to repeat it. If we repeat it, then IMO it will mean that we have failed to eliminate it, and by that time the tracing will be nearly impossible, and we are just buying time until a vaccine or cure comes along. But the fact that this is a coronovirus and we have never come up with a cure for the common cold, it could be years off.

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