2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2460827 13-Apr-2020 22:45

frankv: It's interesting to look back on the official statements from organizations we should trust according to TV1 news.

For example, Boris Johnson went to hospital as a precaution, was admitted to ICU as a precaution said UK's NHS. Now, Boris says, it was touch and go, and he's lucky to be alive.

And the Rosewood rest home residents admitted to Burwood just as a matter of convenience, according to the MoH. They were receiving ordinary care, the same as if they were at the home. And now they're dying, one after another.

The information we're getting is being "managed".

You expected otherwise?

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mattwnz

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#2460842 14-Apr-2020 00:01

frankv: It's interesting to look back on the official statements from organizations we should trust according to TV1 news.

For example, Boris Johnson went to hospital as a precaution, was admitted to ICU as a precaution said UK's NHS. Now, Boris says, it was touch and go, and he's lucky to be alive.

And the Rosewood rest home residents admitted to Burwood just as a matter of convenience, according to the MoH. They were receiving ordinary care, the same as if they were at the home. And now they're dying, one after another.

The information we're getting is being "managed".

It comes down to the media asking the right questions, and doing investigations. Unfortunately they are easily distracted and from, what I see they like stories that get the clicks. How many questions were wasted over the health ministers bike and beach trip. Personally I always look at what they don't say, and one also has to read between the lines. This is something I was taught at school years ago, to always read between the lines and it is what they aren't saying that is often more important than what they do say.

mattwnz

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#2460843 14-Apr-2020 00:30

I would also suggest people watch the Director General of Health's video on their facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/minhealthnz/ , as he answers quite a lot of questions that some people have asked here, which I haven't seen discussed anywhere else. This video was made on Easter Monday , so is very up to date. A pity it is on Facebook rather than on something like YouTube, so not sure if you have to be a member to watch it or not.

Handle9

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#2460851 14-Apr-2020 04:06

mattwnz:
frankv: It's interesting to look back on the official statements from organizations we should trust according to TV1 news.

For example, Boris Johnson went to hospital as a precaution, was admitted to ICU as a precaution said UK's NHS. Now, Boris says, it was touch and go, and he's lucky to be alive.

And the Rosewood rest home residents admitted to Burwood just as a matter of convenience, according to the MoH. They were receiving ordinary care, the same as if they were at the home. And now they're dying, one after another.

The information we're getting is being "managed".

It comes down to the media asking the right questions, and doing investigations. Unfortunately they are easily distracted and from, what I see they like stories that get the clicks. How many questions were wasted over the health ministers bike and beach trip. Personally I always look at what they don't say, and one also has to read between the lines. This is something I was taught at school years ago, to always read between the lines and it is what they aren't saying that is often more important than what they do say.

I'd rather people just read the lines. The (low) level of comprehension in this thread is mind boggling.

kingdragonfly

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#2460857 14-Apr-2020 07:06

New York Times: The American companies putting profits ahead of public health

As the coronavirus spreads, the public interest requires employers to abandon their longstanding resistance to paid sick leave.

Most American restaurants do not offer paid sick leave. Workers who fall sick face a simple choice: Work and get paid or stay home and get stiffed. Not surprisingly, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported in 2014 that fully 20 percent of food service workers had come to work at least once in the previous year “while sick with vomiting or diarrhea.”

...The vast majority of workers at large restaurant chains report they do not get paid sick leave, except in the minority of states and cities where it is required by law. The list of malefactors includes the giants of fast food, like McDonald’s, Subway and Chick-fil-A, as well as sit-down restaurants like Cracker Barrel, Outback Steakhouse and the Cheesecake Factory.

And it’s not just restaurants. The data also shows most workers at the supermarket chains Wegmans, Kroger, Meijer and Giant Eagle reported that they did not get paid sick leave. So did workers at retailers including American Eagle, Victoria’s Secret and the Gap.

...After an employee at a Canton, Georgia, Waffle House tested positive for the coronavirus, the company said it would continue to pay the employee and quarantined co-workers. But a spokeswoman, Njeri Boss, said the company would not commit to offering similar benefits to other workers affected by the coronavirus. The company declined to comment on its existing paid sick leave policy, but 99 percent of surveyed Waffle House workers said that they don’t get paid sick days. Asked whether customers might reasonably be concerned about eating at a restaurant that refuses to pay sick workers to stay at home, Ms. Boss said the company expected sick workers to stay at home. And would Waffle House commit to paying workers for acting responsibly? “That’s a matter between us and our associates,” she said.

Importantly, large numbers of workers at companies that offer paid sick leave reported that they did not get paid sick leave. At Chipotle, for example, workers are eligible to take up to three paid sick days beginning the day they are hired, but 20 percent of surveyed Chipotle workers said they could not take paid sick days. Walmart, by far the nation’s largest private employer, extended paid sick leave to all employees in February 2019, but only 73 percent of the Walmart workers surveyed since then said that they could take paid sick days.

Mr. Schneider and Ms. Harknett said that workers often are unaware of sick leave policies, or feel unable to take advantage of them. Managers exercise considerable power over scheduling and hours, and the researchers said that workers, in interviews, often expressed concern about the consequences of requesting a sick day. Chipotle conceded in 2017 that a norovirus outbreak centered on a Chipotle in Sterling, Va., was caused by a sick employee who should have been sent home.
...
A federal law mandating paid sick leave is necessary because the coronavirus is just an instance of a broader problem. Norovirus, a major cause of food poisoning cases, sickens some 20 million Americans each year, and kills several hundred. Outbreaks often are traced back to sick food service workers, prompting the C.D.C. to recommend paid leave as a corrective. The spread of seasonal flu and other diseases is also greatly exacerbated by sick workers.
...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/opinion/sunday/coronavirus-paid-sick-leave.html

tdgeek

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#2460861 14-Apr-2020 07:43

This is out of left field. Experts here say we should pretty much go back to normal now

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120984583/coronavirus-lockdown-rules-should-be-relaxed-health-experts-say

shk292

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#2460865 14-Apr-2020 07:55

tdgeek:

This is out of left field. Experts here say we should pretty much go back to normal now

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120984583/coronavirus-lockdown-rules-should-be-relaxed-health-experts-say

I suppose it depends on how confident we are that the virus has been stamped out, and that new imports are controlled 100% effectively. If we can't be sure of those things, then relaxing too much just risks Level 4 all over again.

frankv

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#2460866 14-Apr-2020 07:57

From the above:
"If you catch Covid-19 your likelihood of dying is the same as your average likelihood of dying that year anyway. It has been described as squeezing your years mortality risk into two weeks."

Or, to put it another way, it perhaps doubles your likelihood of dying, assuming everyone gets it within a year. Your only way to get back to the normal death risk is to get it, survive, and develop immunity, which is not guaranteed.

Of course, if everyone gets it within a year, the health system will be swamped and the death rate increases by a factor of 5.

No thanks.

Fred99

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#2460867 14-Apr-2020 08:00

tdgeek:

This is out of left field. Experts here say we should pretty much go back to normal now

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120984583/coronavirus-lockdown-rules-should-be-relaxed-health-experts-say

There should be disclosure of conflict of interest when educated fools like that group start getting involved in the politics of whether to just let people die because... explain reasons.

Those countries that have followed the sort of prescription set out by this group have generally seen surges in cases and enormous pressure placed on their health systems as well as a far greater number of deaths

Fred99

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#2460874 14-Apr-2020 08:23

"Cherry Picking" = p-hacking

If he let his students get away with that lack of academic honesty, then he should be sacked. If he's done it himself, then he should be sacked.

dejadeadnz

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#2460883 14-Apr-2020 09:06

I would also caution that the AUT University (LOL), University of Auckland and Victoria University of Wellington academics have an extreme prominence amongst that group. According to my wife (ER consultant in her hospital's crisis team), the opinions of the public health experts from the University of Otago have certainly been viewed far more favourably by the medical profession throughout this crisis. More importantly, IMO, one should also be wary of academics from those three universities once again pushing the "Everything is all good!" line in light of the very aggressive insinuation by the management of those universities that the initial travel ban of Chinese students and subsequent limitations of international student movements were disproportionate, race-based/non-science based, and would completely destroy their institutions/the overseas education industry etc.

People can judge for themselves the accuracy of those claims, which were predominantly fronted by the highly embarrassing Vice Chancellors of each university. I for one am embarrassed by the conduct of Stuart McCutcheon as a UoA alumni.

bmt

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#2460884 14-Apr-2020 09:15

Sigh.

Much like how high school teachers need to specialise in their field (i.e a Physics teacher should have studied physics at university), it would be nice if journalists who want to report on issues like these had a background in it rather than just a generic journalism degree. I see recent articles from Virginia Fallon include such headlines as "Janet and Wilf Wright on pottery and living", "Information sought on man who ran over dog" and "What love is like under lockdown".

Simply reporting on this is not good enough - where is the critical thinking and challenging of why we should be listening to these people? They may be Professors, but does that make them experts? I was a fan of Grant Schofield - he helped write a cookbook I bought advocating for a low sugar diet. We also have a "Professor of experimental economics" in the group. Why should we listen to these people commenting on a global pandemic? Just because they have a PhD or are a Professor of this or that doesn't necessarily make them any more qualified to comment than you or I. In the case of Simon Thornley above, his comments on this issue have already been ridiculed.

dejadeadnz

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#2460886 14-Apr-2020 09:21

Simply reporting on this is not good enough - where is the critical thinking and challenging of why we should be listening to these people?

People need to read articles and then interpret for themselves. What was unfortunate about that article is the relative lack of opposing viewpoint by quoted experts of seemingly equivalent stature (however I assume that the government spokesperson's viewpoint was arrived upon based on expert feedback). I for one don't want buried op eds inside purported reportage.

Varkk

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#2460888 14-Apr-2020 09:24

Fred99:

"Cherry Picking" = p-hacking

If he let his students get away with that lack of academic honesty, then he should be sacked. If he's done it himself, then he should be sacked.

You don't need to be an expert in microbiology or statistical analysis to pick apart the claims from these guys. You just need to read the headlines coming out of Italy, New York etc to see that this is indeed a serious crisis needing a serious response. And yes our health system has coped with it well and not been overwhelmed. That is because of the response from our government introducing the lockdown to stop the spread.

tdgeek

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#2460924 14-Apr-2020 10:56

Anyone else notice how poor the select committee feed is today? Stops and retries or audio drops out. Just me?

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