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133 posts

Master Geek
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  #2473198 29-Apr-2020 10:53
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debo:

 

What?  There is absolutely no evidence of that.  Australia did not go into a level 4 lockdown and they are tracking similar to us.  Is Ozzy covering up 10s/100s of thousands of deaths? No, i don't think so. We would be in the same health situation with or with out level 4 lockdown, except now our economy is a lot worse off.

 

 

Aussie is actually doing much better than us despite never going into L4.

 

To be honest right now I think we got it wrong going into L4.


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  #2473199 29-Apr-2020 10:54
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MikeB4:

 

This Burger Fuel outlet should be told to close until we get to Covid Alert zero. Absolute idiots.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121325810/coronavirus-police-intervene-after-large-crowd-congregates-outside-burger-joint

 

 

I don't understand people rushing to buy crappy food when there's so much at stake.

 

People complete, utter fools.





 

 

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  #2473201 29-Apr-2020 10:54
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@NumPy:

 

Aussie is actually doing much better than us despite never going into L4.

 

To be honest right now I think we got it wrong going into L4.

 

 

Please elaborate. Your opinion is an opinion without anything to support it.





 

 

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Master Geek
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  #2473202 29-Apr-2020 10:55
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MikeB4:

 

This Burger Fuel outlet should be told to close until we get to Covid Alert zero. Absolute idiots.

 

 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121325810/coronavirus-police-intervene-after-large-crowd-congregates-outside-burger-joint

 

 

The PM has said confidently that we have no community transmission. Is there really anything then to worry about?


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Master Geek
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  #2473204 29-Apr-2020 10:56
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freitasm:

 

@NumPy:

 

Aussie is actually doing much better than us despite never going into L4.

 

To be honest right now I think we got it wrong going into L4.

 

 

Please elaborate. Your opinion is an opinion without anything to support it.

 

 

Aussie has 3 deaths per million, we have 4.


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Master Geek


  #2473208 29-Apr-2020 10:58
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I would have to go with Fred99, 

 

Our leaders were looking at the data from our situation, plus you have to remember its every country for themselves in this.

 

Everyone competed for resources we needed to fight this , PPE , Test Kits ( Especially reliable ones ) , Reagent Chemicals for Test kits , plus everything else we do not make in any scale that would be needed. 

 

Aussie even stopped export of ethanol to us .
http://autotalk.co.nz/news/hand-sanitiser-production-earmarked-for-essential-services

 

If any of the Antivirals proved to be effective, we will not be first in the queue for that either.
Vaccine if one is discovered that works , well we saw how USA tried to buy exclusive rights to a potential Vaccine.

 

So we have to manage things for ourselves.
One can understand as the numbers for the Weddings the Hereford Conference, a School that luckily did not cause a major outbreak and one that did , decision makers made the decision they did.

 

 

Edit: Adding source of Graph:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12327959

 

 

 

 


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  #2473210 29-Apr-2020 11:00
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NumPy:

 

The PM has said confidently that we have no community transmission. Is there really anything then to worry about?

 

 

Yes - you haven't been paying attention.  That worries me. Despite plenty of good information being available from reliable sources, so many people have "opinions" that they feel obliged to share - when they display very poor comprehension of what's going on.


 
 
 
 


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  #2473215 29-Apr-2020 11:06
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NumPy:

 

Aussie has 3 deaths per million, we have 4.

 

 

Belgium has 633, the US and *UK can't even count deaths accurately.
NZ and Aus have done very well so far.  Let's all get together, have a party - and share yard glasses of Mexican beer.

 

* "yet" - the UK is supposed to be adding rest-home deaths to figures, but they will only include PCR confirmed.


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  #2473216 29-Apr-2020 11:07
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freitasm:

 

MikeB4:

 

This Burger Fuel outlet should be told to close until we get to Covid Alert zero. Absolute idiots.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121325810/coronavirus-police-intervene-after-large-crowd-congregates-outside-burger-joint

 

 

I don't understand people rushing to buy crappy food when there's so much at stake.

 

People complete, utter fools.

 

 

I've said this before: there are Health and Safety at Work Act obligations on businesses to take all practicable steps to ensure that their operations is without risk to the public and their own staff. If this idiotic joint can't operate without these BS queues, they should just close. The police also weren't doing their jobs - these people should have been ordered to disburse; not just "educated". Who cares that they couldn't get their burgers? We are unnecessarily privileging minor/pointless "freedoms" of the greedy and idiotic, at a potential massive cost to the majority. In this respect, our public response has been poor.

 

Personally, this just reinforces my view that hospitality should not have been allowed to open at level 3. And they also need to be more aware of how stupid humanity is when it comes to previewing what's coming at level 2. Don't build up the anticipation and don't start giving people they idea of some massive emancipation that they can look forward to. Because as the evidence shows, the moment things loosen up a bit, a sizable minority just decide to be absolute idiots.

 

The media should also be held to account for the BS wall-to-wall coverage about which fast food outlet is open and what they are selling, along with going around photographing the bogans' beaming smiles as they held up their Mecca's and sitting around in groups.

 

 


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  #2473217 29-Apr-2020 11:07
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Bad news for US meat workers. I'm sure this will hopefully spook some US consumers, so good news for NZ meat exporters. Maybe MPI should increase our meat commercials in the US.

Bloomberg: Trump to Order Meat Plants to Stay Open in Move Slammed by Union

By Jennifer Jacobs and Lydia Mulvany
  • President will invoke Defense Production Act after closures
  • At least 6,500 workers sickened or in isolation, union says
President Donald Trump plans to order slaughterhouses to remain open, setting up a showdown between the giant companies that produce America’s meat and the unions and activists who want to protect workers in a pandemic.

Environmental Working Group called the order a potential death sentence. The United Food and Commercial Workers union said in a statement that if workers aren’t safe, the food supply won’t be either. At least 20 workers in meat and food processing have died, and 5,000 meatpacking workers have either tested positive for the virus or were forced to self-quarantine, according to UFCW.
...
Using the Defense Production Act, Trump will order plants to stay open as part of the critical infrastructure needed to keep people fed amid growing supply disruptions from the coronavirus outbreak, a person familiar with the matter said. The government will provide additional protective gear for employees as well as guidance, according to the person.

The move would come just days after Tyson Foods Inc., the biggest U.S. meat processor, ran paid ads in national newspapers stating that the food supply chain was “broken.”

A handful of companies account for the majority of the nation’s meat, and as workers fell sick in March, plants initially continued to run. But pressure from local health officials and unions led to voluntary closures.

Companies have been pressing to reopen. The president himself has long agitated for Americans to return to work and restore an economy crippled by social distancing measures.
...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-28/trump-says-he-s-issuing-order-for-tyson-s-unique-liability

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  #2473231 29-Apr-2020 11:30
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debo:

There is a threat to go back into level 4. If we don't learn from our mistake then we will just repeat it all over again. I'm not trying to look backward and 'blame' people, i'm saying we should learn from Australia and do better next time.



The "threat" to go back to L4 was if we lose control in L3. If you're right and L4 wasn't necessary, then we won't lose control and we won't go back to L4. Of course, we'll then have a bunch of people saying L3 wasn't necessary and we should learn from [some cherry picked country].

Whether L4 was a mistake is moot... we don't know what it cost, and we don't know what going to L3 instead would have cost. We know that L4 got the needed result, and we don't know whether L3 would have or not. It's all speculation.

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  #2473234 29-Apr-2020 11:37
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frankv:

The "threat" to go back to L4 was if we lose control in L3. If you're right and L4 wasn't necessary, then we won't lose control and we won't go back to L4. Of course, we'll then have a bunch of people saying L3 wasn't necessary and we should learn from [some cherry picked country].

Whether L4 was a mistake is moot... we don't know what it cost, and we don't know what going to L3 instead would have cost. We know that L4 got the needed result, and we don't know whether L3 would have or not. It's all speculation.

 

Agree. And its not like we went to L4 for 7 months. It was 5 weeks. two weeks of L3 which many businesses can function, thats 7 weeks. And they got 12 weeks wages help. It wasnt a long term crippling campaign to bash businesses. It was about 47 days.


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  #2473237 29-Apr-2020 11:40
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The farce of identical cross examination and repeated questions/dictionary references to eradicated/eliminated to both the PM and DG like yesterday off the cards today.

 

Combined duo again for 1PM .


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  #2473250 29-Apr-2020 11:55
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NumPy:

Aussie has 3 deaths per million, we have 4.


Those numbers are rounded. NZ is actually 3.88 and Aus 3.45 (rounded to 2 decimal places). If NZ had 2 fewer deaths, we would be about the same rate as Aus. That kind of difference gets down to whether someone decided to go ahead with a wedding on 21 March or not, or visited their granny in a rest home. I.e. statistically insignificant.

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  #2473254 29-Apr-2020 12:04
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tdgeek:

frankv:

The "threat" to go back to L4 was if we lose control in L3. If you're right and L4 wasn't necessary, then we won't lose control and we won't go back to L4. Of course, we'll then have a bunch of people saying L3 wasn't necessary and we should learn from [some cherry picked country].

Whether L4 was a mistake is moot... we don't know what it cost, and we don't know what going to L3 instead would have cost. We know that L4 got the needed result, and we don't know whether L3 would have or not. It's all speculation.


Agree. And its not like we went to L4 for 7 months. It was 5 weeks. two weeks of L3 which many businesses can function, thats 7 weeks. And they got 12 weeks wages help. It wasnt a long term crippling campaign to bash businesses. It was about 47 days.



L4 worked because it was like a sledgehammer to crack a walnut,
and prior to the lockdown we were doing worse than Oz. That improved under L4 because people were more physically distanced starving the virus of hosts. Some top NZ experts recommended 6-8 weeks on L4 to be safe. That would have gotten active cases down to just a handful and more time to work through big bubbles. We needed the extra week to get tracing up to the 'gold standard' . Potentially level 3 then could be shorter if L4 had been 6-8 weeks and many countrieslike UK are going be in lockdown a lot longer than this just to slow it down with zero chance of eliminating it and the effect on businesses will likely be magnitudes worse as a result. .

The next one to two weeks of case numbers will be telling as to whether relaxing the rules earlier, mixed with a potentially higher infection rate due to more people working , will lead to a rise in new cases. So if there are also any undetected community transmissions, they should show up with potentially new random cases in the community popping up. Modeling did show that going into level 3 too early had the potential to rise in some scenarios, dependingon how soon we left L4.

But this virus spreads silently , so we are essentially flying blind and a good week plus behind it. Testing is the only way to find out. But L4 gave NZ the chance to roll back time at a big cost and I hope that isn't ruined by just a few idiots not doing things properly. The photos I posted last night outside a fast food joint of people congregating after the DG warned people not to is just one example of a sign that some people aren't doing things properly. We don't know what is going on behind closed doors in a business and whether they are all physically distancing themselves properly.

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