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16525 posts

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  #2473260 29-Apr-2020 12:17
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Oblivian:

Combined duo again for 1PM .



The combined press conference format ended two days ago. They now hold separate ones.

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  #2473276 29-Apr-2020 12:21
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mattwnz:

L4 worked because it was like a sledgehammer to crack a walnut,
and prior to the lockdown we were doing worse than Oz. That improved under L4 because people were more physically distanced starving the virus of hosts. Some top NZ experts recommended 6-8 weeks on L4 to be safe. That would have gotten active cases down to just a handful and more time to work through big bubbles. We needed the extra week to get tracing up to the 'gold standard' . Potentially level 3 then could be shorter if L4 had been 6-8 weeks and many countrieslike UK are going be in lockdown a lot longer than this just to slow it down with zero chance of eliminating it. The next one to two weeks of case numbers will be telling as to whether relaxing the rules earlier, mixed with a potentially higher infection rate due to more people working , will lead to a rise in new cases. If there are also any undetected community transmissions, they should show up with potentially new random cases in the community popping up. Modeling did show that going into level 3 too early had the potential to rise in some scenarios, dependingon how soon we left L4. But this virus spreads silently , so we are essentially flying blind and a good week behind it. Testing is the only way find out. But L4 have NZ the chance to roll back time at a big cost and I hope that isn't ruined by just a few idiots not doing things properly.

 

I cant agree it was a sledgehammer cracking a walnut. That either means the L4 was vastly excessive or the virus is an easy fix. Your post tells me the the virus is not easy and L4 was right but not long enough so you are contradicting yourself

 

L4 has in fact got us to a handful of cases, your words. 5 weeks worked, didnt need 6 to 8. L3 can't be shorter its its higfhly likely to be just 2 weeks. Admittedly Id like L3 to be longer. Possibly can then be a bit freer. UK is a non comparison.

 

We are flying blind in L3, but we are doing that when we know that cases in the wild are in very very low numbers. We can expect CT to popup, thats ok, we know that, and the resoiurces can hammer that location. 

 

The issue is many take L3 and the last week of L4 as L2, a free for all. L4 had leaks, cannot avoid that. L3 will have more leaks, thats due to inadvertent and flouting and allowing flouting. Not much will happen for 2 weeks, then we need to see if we are getting 12 to 20 cases a day, and/or CT as people dont fess up how many they have been having beers with, and end up with clusters in various stores instead of just rest homes and weddings

 

If this is the case its not the MoH or Govt, its all on us, or at least the flouters amongst us,the car filled Macca's buyers and the BK's as per todays example. Thats where the fail will be sourced from. Maybe then the Police will return the orders of wet bus tickets and punish those who are diluting our efforts. Businesses can be shut down if they dont play ball.


 
 
 
 


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  #2473277 29-Apr-2020 12:21
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frankv:
NumPy:

Aussie has 3 deaths per million, we have 4.


Those numbers are rounded. NZ is actually 3.88 and Aus 3.45 (rounded to 2 decimal places). If NZ had 2 fewer deaths, we would be about the same rate as Aus. That kind of difference gets down to whether someone decided to go ahead with a wedding on 21 March or not, or visited their granny in a rest home. I.e. statistically insignificant.


The numbers are too small to say one way or another. But does NZ have a higher proportion of infected resthomes than Oz? Considering most deaths appear to have originated in resthomes in NZ and those are the people most vulnerable to dying from it.

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  #2473278 29-Apr-2020 12:23
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I am going to get accused of being some guy looking down upon the masses etc but this and the muppetry seen outside that Burger Fuel were highly predictable:

 

Uber drivers delivering Mecca's treat social distancing as a joke

 

To trust these highly extractive and exploitative fast food outlets to behave properly, when they predominantly depend on unskilled and terribly paid staff and contractors who frankly won't give a **** when crap hits the fan, is just naive to the extreme. Add this to the mix the kind of typical demographic that patronise such stores -- the relatively uneducated and  "Don't give a toss!" crowd -- you're just setting up a powder keg of disaster. The problem with the likes of large format fast food outlets as well is that their relatively large footholds will end up encouraging people to congregate. This was absolutely predictable. 

 

Meanwhile, here's the BS response from Burger Fuel about what occurred at Glenfield, Auckland:

 

 

A BurgerFuel spokeswoman said staff are navigating new procedures such as strict hygiene protocols, physical distancing guidelines and contactless food preparation.

 

"This, combined with major volumes of orders following five weeks of no operation, resulted in some stores struggling to control crowds at peak collection times.

 

"Today we are working hard on a number of improvements to ensure the wellbeing of our customers and staff."

 

This included limiting online orders to ensure food production and queues are manageable, and all stores requiring a crowd controlled at the store front at all times. This will help to reinforce distancing between customers.

 

In other words, you weren't ready, didn't know what you were doing, and put profits above others' health. Dicks.

 

 


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  #2473294 29-Apr-2020 12:31
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Agree. Id venture to suggest they knew what they were doing, they saw the orders, they can extrapolate that to bodies, but hey, check the sales targets we are smashing it. Hindsight, but perhaps The Govt should have drawn a line and said, any abuses or lack of control, Police will instantly lock the doors for a week. Next time its permanently shut for L3 on a store by store basis. 


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  #2473296 29-Apr-2020 12:33
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tdgeek:

mattwnz:

L4 worked because it was like a sledgehammer to crack a walnut,
and prior to the lockdown we were doing worse than Oz. That improved under L4 because people were more physically distanced starving the virus of hosts. Some top NZ experts recommended 6-8 weeks on L4 to be safe. That would have gotten active cases down to just a handful and more time to work through big bubbles. We needed the extra week to get tracing up to the 'gold standard' . Potentially level 3 then could be shorter if L4 had been 6-8 weeks and many countrieslike UK are going be in lockdown a lot longer than this just to slow it down with zero chance of eliminating it. The next one to two weeks of case numbers will be telling as to whether relaxing the rules earlier, mixed with a potentially higher infection rate due to more people working , will lead to a rise in new cases. If there are also any undetected community transmissions, they should show up with potentially new random cases in the community popping up. Modeling did show that going into level 3 too early had the potential to rise in some scenarios, dependingon how soon we left L4. But this virus spreads silently , so we are essentially flying blind and a good week behind it. Testing is the only way find out. But L4 have NZ the chance to roll back time at a big cost and I hope that isn't ruined by just a few idiots not doing things properly.


I cant agree it was a sledgehammer cracking a walnut. That either means the L4 was vastly excessive or the virus is an easy fix. Your post tells me the the virus is not easy and L4 was right but not long enough so you are contradicting yourself


L4 has in fact got us to a handful of cases, your words. 5 weeks worked, didnt need 6 to 8. L3 can't be shorter its its higfhly likely to be just 2 weeks. Admittedly Id like L3 to be longer. Possibly can then be a bit freer. UK is a non comparison.


We are flying blind in L3, but we are doing that when we know that cases in the wild are in very very low numbers. We can expect CT to popup, thats ok, we know that, and the resoiurces can hammer that location. 


The issue is many take L3 and the last week of L4 as L2, a free for all. L4 had leaks, cannot avoid that. L3 will have more leaks, thats due to inadvertent and flouting and allowing flouting. Not much will happen for 2 weeks, then we need to see if we are getting 12 to 20 cases a day, and/or CT as people dont fess up how many they have been having beers with, and end up with clusters in various stores instead of just rest homes and weddings


If this is the case its not the MoH or Govt, its all on us, or at least the flouters amongst us,the car filled Macca's buyers and the BK's as per todays example. Thats where the fail will be sourced from. Maybe then the Police will return the orders of wet bus tickets and punish those who are diluting our efforts. Businesses can be shut down if they dont play ball.



No that doesn't mean that. L4 basically meant that the country could quickly and effectively pause and reset the numbers and eliminates many of the idiots from having much of an effect if they did flout the rules. Idiots under L3 however do risk having a bigger effect because there are more people out and about that they may interact with. Doing L4 any other way at that time would have led to delay. Time is the enemy with this virus. L3 would have taken to long to prepare. That isn't to say that that couldn't have adjusted L4 while we were in it. NZs numbers were looking very bad prior to lockdown. UK appears to be in a similar level of lockdown but are too late and they are likely going to be in various forms of very restrictive lockdown for many months. I know of elderly over there who haven't been able to leave their house for months. Think of the mental health problems that must be causing.

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  #2473299 29-Apr-2020 12:39
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The Sikh community have really stepped up with their charitable efforts , supporting community no matter their religion, or not.

 

You have had individual Sikh businesses, as well as larger combined efforts organised by temples.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12327677

 

Thanks to all the charitable groups that have been working 10x harder to support communities. 

 

There are so many its hard to name them all. 
City Missions , Salvation Army , Student Armies and many unsung heros.

 

Particularly the ones that face challenging people in very difficult circumstances, something I would find personally difficult . 

 

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/rotorua-man-heart-gold-helps-house-200-homeless-people-during-covid-19-lockdown

 

In times where charities are also running low on resources themselves.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2473304 29-Apr-2020 12:59
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tdgeek:

 

Agree. Id venture to suggest they knew what they were doing, they saw the orders, they can extrapolate that to bodies, but hey, check the sales targets we are smashing it. Hindsight, but perhaps The Govt should have drawn a line and said, any abuses or lack of control, Police will instantly lock the doors for a week. Next time its permanently shut for L3 on a store by store basis. 

 

 

Yeah I tend to agree. People can debate the finer details but I tend to think we were too harsh on online retailing by delivery yet way too loose with hospitality. The risk that hospitality carries is that it attracts the muppets and invite congregation. Right now the world just doesn't need these low value hospitality outlets. Yeah yeah poor them blah blah and they have rents to pay etc. Society has a need to stay alive.

 

 


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  #2473306 29-Apr-2020 13:04
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I simply cannot see how food prepared and handed out by someone I have no idea of their personal hygiene can in any way deemed safe in the current world we exist in. To me it's akin to playing Russian roulette.
I will not be going anywhere near a restaurant, cafe or takeaway for a very long time.




Mike

 

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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #2473313 29-Apr-2020 13:15
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742 complaints about businesses and L3 compliance. Its been less than 48 hours.


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  #2473318 29-Apr-2020 13:33
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Well, just got tested. Have an irritated throat for the last two nights, but no other symptoms (I suspect just cold night, dry house, who knows?) but Healthline asked to test. So booked for 1.20pm at Kenepuru. Drove there at 1.10pm and it was empty - went straight through and back home at 1.30pm. Now the wait begins.

 

The swab itself is not uncomfortable or bad at all.





 

 

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  #2473320 29-Apr-2020 13:34
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It's no use for the PM to just talk about holding people to account. Just as an example, that Burger Fuel outlet (preferably all BF outlets) should be shut down as a punishment. Make them go bankrupt if need be. People need to clear a clear picture that the rules aren't advisories: you don't obey it when it suits you; it's not your lover asking you nicely to calm your puppy down. It's a lawful command. If you don't follow it, you're done for -- don't operate if you can't/won't operate safely.

 

 


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  #2473323 29-Apr-2020 13:36
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freitasm:

 

Well, just got tested. Have an irritated throat for the last two nights, but no other symptoms (I suspect just cold night, dry house, who knows?) but Healthline asked to test. So booked for 1.20pm at Kenepuru. Drove there at 1.10pm and it was empty - went straight through and back home at 1.30pm. Now the wait begins.

 

The swab itself is not uncomfortable or bad at all.

 

 

Good luck. I hope the wait isn't too anxious. When do you get the result?

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2473350 29-Apr-2020 13:51
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dejadeadnz:

It's no use for the PM to just talk about holding people to account. Just as an example, that Burger Fuel outlet (preferably all BF outlets) should be shut down as a punishment. Make them go bankrupt if need be. People need to clear a clear picture that the rules aren't advisories: you don't obey it when it suits you; it's not your lover asking you nicely to calm your puppy down. It's a lawful command. If you don't follow it, you're done for -- don't operate if you can't/won't operate safely.


 



While I agree that people should be held to account, and feel that has been done extremely poorly throughout both L4 and by the looks will be in L3 - the Police have absolutely dropped the ball here - I disagree the that we should close, and bankrupt if need be, businesses.

You will find plenty of examples throughout this thread and the shopping one of people not paying attention to or obeying the law. Closer than 2m in the supermarket - well obviously that's the supermarket's fault, shut them down and bankrupt them. Yes, you're going to tell me they are essential blah blah and I agree - however, just because a place is open, does not mean that I need to go in there, particularly if there are already people inside.

Until the Police, or some other entity with the authority to, start to actually enforce the laws that the governmemt keeps spouting, you can expect this to keep happening. It's not a business's fault entirely, and laying the blame squarely at their feet negates the culpability of the retards who can't stop for a second and wait in their car for their turn.

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  #2473355 29-Apr-2020 13:56
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freitasm:

Well, just got tested. Have an irritated throat for the last two nights, but no other symptoms (I suspect just cold night, dry house, who knows?) but Healthline asked to test. So booked for 1.20pm at Kenepuru. Drove there at 1.10pm and it was empty - went straight through and back home at 1.30pm. Now the wait begins.


The swab itself is not uncomfortable or bad at all.



I got tested last week for similar reasons.
I got an email from my GP at 9am the next morning that I had a new lab result so I logged in and saw the negative test result. 👍
Then at about 9.20am I got a phone call to tell me the same news.

The whole process was quick efficient and seemed very safe to me.

If you have got a cold and/or a sore throat, or any other symptoms call the healthline or your GP.
You are one of many doing this.

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