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Devastation by stupidity
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  #2477078 5-May-2020 15:34
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Not to be disrespectful, as I am well aware this is a very serious issue, but doctors who become overwhelmed have other means at their disposal to end it all. It just seems unlikely to me that three would choose to 'fall' out of windows in rapid succession.

 

 





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  #2477084 5-May-2020 15:45
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neb:

 

Thus my comment about waiting for more details to appear. The same thing has already happened in the US, but no-one's said "well this is normal in Trump's America", because it wasn't Russia.

 

C-19 (which she had) probably has some impact on mental health - beyond traumatic stress.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/demystifying-psychiatry/202004/effects-covid-19-the-brain


 
 
 
 


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  #2477086 5-May-2020 15:48
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kobiak:

pretty much no existence of PPE [...] State government told region governments to sort everything themselves. [...] it's hell of mess over there.

 

 

Gosh, all of that seems strangely familiar. I'm sure I've heard the same thing about another country...

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  #2477087 5-May-2020 15:49
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Rikkitic:

Not to be disrespectful, as I am well aware this is a very serious issue, but doctors who become overwhelmed have other means at their disposal to end it all. It just seems unlikely to me that three would choose to 'fall' out of windows in rapid succession.

 

 

Maybe they did but it was reported as an accident. A great many "it went off while he was cleaning it" deaths in the US are actually suicides that are covered up for insurance or face-saving purposes.

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  #2477089 5-May-2020 15:50
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Fred99:

 

mattwnz:

 

Otherwise IMO, as NZers we have sacrificed more to go harder and eliminate it than Oz.

 

 

I did not think it was even remotely possible for NZ and Aus to achieve what they/we seem to have been able to do.
I can't see much point debating differences in how we got to the point we're at - the outbreaks were somewhat different in both countries.  It's the situation now that matters.  Fingers crossed we'll only see a few sporadic but traceable cases.  Aus has been ticking up slightly - mainly due to one new cluster in Victoria centred on a meat processing works, 17 new cases.  I assume that will probably go up with contact tracing of the worker's home contacts etc.  Similar could easily happen here too as we move from L3 down.

 

 

The thing is that NZ and Oz are in a different situation. They have managed to suppress it, but not eliminate it, which is a lot easier than what NZ has done. But they are still getting community transmission occurring, so it appears to still be spreading silently in the community. 

 

NZs level 4 lockdowns purpose was to specifically stop that silent community transmission occurring, so we can eliminate it from NZ and then essentially go back to a normal domestic life. eg So we know where every single case is in NZ, and who those people are in contact with.  We are now on our way to eliminating it as result, and it will only be within the next few weeks were we should be able to see if there is any undetected silent community transmission occurring, after level 3 commenced 
Unless Oz do the same and also actually eliminate it, then it is very difficult to stop  their community transmission silently spreading, as it needs a huge amount of tracking resources, and those cases ring fencing. Level 4 basically ringfences everyone into bubbles to kill off undetected cases of the virus over time, which is why level 4 worked for NZ to hopefully eliminate it .

 

So that difference is significant IMO when it comes to this virus. You only need 1 case, to turn into 100 cases over a month as has been shown in some of NZs clusters.

 

Also unless Oz are actually working to a elimination policy of zero new cases, and, then why risk reinfecting NZ with it if there is still the chance of community transmission occurring in Oz. It would be another potential leak, and we could be repeating past errors. It would still be far safer to alow them in, but to quarantine for 14 days, which is still an improvement over how it is currently.  The net gain monetarily wouldn't be worth the billions of dollers, the business loss, and social damage that would be caused by risking us going back into a level 3.5 or 4 lockdown again.
So IMO OZ's strategy has to be the same across all their states, as NZs's, and they have to have achieved the same elimination goal, which I understand is also this NZ experts opinion too. The best way to provide that would probably be to get the WHO to certify both countries as having eliminated it. IMO we need a very very cautious approach. Getting rid of any disease and virus from a country, is often a very expensive exercise. We have to remember that a number of NZs cases have been shown to have originated from Oz from the samples taken.


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  #2477098 5-May-2020 16:08
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neb:

 

ezbee:

 

Even under normal conditions suicides of doctors and medical students are a thing.

 

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2018/reducing-risk-suicide-medical-profession

 

Emergency room, and ICU conditions can be very extreme , as is the learning environment where only top % make it.
Under CV19 hot zones its probably a grind and sense of danger you see on a battlefield I guess.
The extra worry you and your family could be next because your government does not care for you.
Hopelessness.

 

 

Thus my comment about waiting for more details to appear. The same thing has already happened in the US, but no-one's said "well this is normal in Trump's America", because it wasn't Russia.

 

 

While it's possible that some doctors might have decided to take this extreme action, it's not unheard of Russian dissidents or whistleblowers to end up as statistics by someone else's actions...





 

 

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  #2477099 5-May-2020 16:08
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This is why you have to take up extreme caution when doing exercise that might involve danger - press release from Defence Force:

 

 

The crew of a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion last night responded to a mayday call after a paddler ended up in the water near Whangarei Heads.

 

While conducting a training flight off the coast west of Auckland, the crew heard a distress message at around 7 pm on maritime radio that an outrigger type canoe had broken up and a man was in the water.

 

NZ Police had issued the mayday, concerned about the man’s safety.

 

The Orion crew quickly diverted to the scene, arriving there within 10 minutes, and located the man in the water using the aircraft’s infrared sensors.

 

The crew relayed the man’s exact position through to maritime radio.

 

Within minutes after the Orion arrived at the location, the man and his swamped craft were picked up by a vessel. The paddler was understood to be cold but otherwise unhurt.

 

The Orion remained in the area until the man was safely out of the water.

 

Personnel from RNZAF’s No 5 Squadron, who fly the Orions, regularly respond to search and rescue missions.

 

The flight last night was part of training the RNZAF is carrying out to maintain core flying currencies.

 

The RNZAF, and New Zealand Defence Force as a whole, must maintain its operational readiness to carry out the tasks required of it by the government, including search and rescue and humanitarian and disaster relief, as well as contributing to the All of Government response to Covid 19.

 





 

 

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  #2477104 5-May-2020 16:20
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Rikkitic:

 

Russian Covid specialists must be awfully clumsy to keep falling out of windows like that!

 

They were defenestrated by the FSS. It's cheaper than a bullet or the gulag.





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  #2477177 5-May-2020 17:25
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Press release:

 

 

Australia and New Zealand are committed to introducing a trans-Tasman COVID-safe travel zone as soon as it is safe to do so, Prime Minister Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern and Prime Minister the Hon Scott Morrison MP have announced.

 

The Prime Ministers agreed to commence work on a trans-Tasman COVID-safe travel zone – easing travel restrictions between Australia and New Zealand. Such an arrangement would be put in place once it is safe to do so and necessary health, transport and other protocols had been developed and met, to ensure the protection of public health.

 

This arrangement recognises that Australia and New Zealand are both successfully addressing the spread of COVID-19.

 

Any arrangement would need to take into account state and territory movement restrictions.

 

“Building on our success so far in responding to COVID-19, continuing to protect Australians and New Zealanders remains an absolute priority,” the Prime Ministers said. “We will remain responsive to the health situation as it develops.”

 

The Prime Ministers welcomed the early interest of business leaders and other stakeholders in a trans-Tasman COVID-safe travel zone. Officials would work closely with these groups, including the Australia New Zealand Leadership Forum, as planning developed further.

 

“A trans-Tasman COVID-safe travel zone would be mutually beneficial, assisting our trade and economic recovery, helping kick-start the tourism and transport sectors, enhancing sporting contacts, and reuniting families and friends.

 

“We need to be cautious as we progress this initiative. Neither country wants to see the virus rebound so it’s essential any such travel zone is safe. Relaxing travel restrictions at an appropriate time will clearly benefit both countries and demonstrates why getting on top of the virus early is the best strategy for economic recovery,” the Prime Ministers said.

 

The Prime Ministers noted they had worked closely together on Australia’s and New Zealand’s respective border settings since the COVID-19 pandemic began. Each country had allowed the other’s citizens to transit on their way home, and to enter the other country if they ordinarily lived there.

 

These measures reflected Australia and New Zealand’s special relationship, our Single Economic Market agenda, and the long history of freedom of movement between the two countries.

 

“Our relationship is one of family – and our unique travel arrangement means we have a head-start for when it is time to get trans-Tasman travel flowing again,” the Prime Ministers said.

 

“Once we have established effective travel arrangements across the Tasman, we will also explore opportunities to expand the concept to members of our broader Pacific family, enabling travel between Australia, New Zealand and Pacific island countries. We will work with interested Pacific countries on parameters and arrangements to manage the risks.”

 





 

 

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  #2477190 5-May-2020 17:33
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freitasm:

 

Personnel from RNZAF’s No 5 Squadron, who fly the Orions, regularly respond to search and rescue missions.

 

The flight last night was part of training the RNZAF is carrying out to maintain core flying currencies.

 

The RNZAF, and New Zealand Defence Force as a whole, must maintain its operational readiness to carry out the tasks required of it by the government, including search and rescue and humanitarian and disaster relief, as well as contributing to the All of Government response to Covid 19.

 

During my time in the RNZAF (70's) at Whenuapai as a Safety Equipment Technician, I went on one of those SAR missions over the Cook Straight looking for a life raft from an amateur fishing boat out for a day trip. 4 or 5 hours criss crossing an area off the south coast of Wellington looking out of one of the aircraft bubble windows at nothing but moderately rough sea. Very tiring and boring. The co-pilot eventually spotted the raft out front of the P3. We dropped the SAR equipment from the bay which all deployed correctly. On return to base when I was completing the paperwork for the successful deployment and 'wright-off' of the SAR equipment, I discovered I was the bloke that had last serviced it all. I drank free that night in the corporals club.

 

But back then we really did not have the technology that they have now, so we still really had to rely on our peepers for finding those unfortunates. The P3's are/were a great aircraft. I worked on the P3B version and current is P3K. Their airframe is over 50 years old now and there is only so much updating and modifications you can do. So the new P-8A Poseidon's will be a welcome improvement.

 

Well done 5 Sqn.





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  #2477201 5-May-2020 17:57
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China mocks US coronavirus response in Lego-like animation, 'Once Upon a Virus'

 

Not exactly sophisticated!

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/03/asia-pacific/china-mocks-us-coronavirus-response-lego-animation/#.XrD8xagzbAQ

 

 


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  #2477207 5-May-2020 18:19
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DS248:

 

Not exactly sophisticated!

 

 

Oh wow - doesn't need to be sophisticated - it's very accurate.  


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  #2477209 5-May-2020 18:30
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freitasm:

 

Press release:

 

 

Australia and New Zealand are committed to introducing a trans-Tasman COVID-safe travel zone as soon as it is safe to do so, Prime Minister Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern and Prime Minister the Hon Scott Morrison MP have announced.

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

Morrison seems to be playing it down somewhat, at least for his AU audience.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-05/national-cabinet-coronavirus-travel-bubble-nz-ardern/12215316

 

 


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  #2477212 5-May-2020 18:33
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mattwnz:

 

 

 

The thing is that NZ and Oz are in a different situation. They have managed to suppress it, but not eliminate it, which is a lot easier than what NZ has done. But they are still getting community transmission occurring, so it appears to still be spreading silently in the community. 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. The Trans Tasman bubble is just a concept at the moment. Its hard to imagine it working in the near future. Maybe by Xmas their results  are almost zero everyday, half of that will be due to Summer. You really need a 10 minute test at the airport that is reliable


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  #2477219 5-May-2020 19:00
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Fred99:

Oh wow - doesn't need to be sophisticated - it's very accurate.  

 

 

I particularly like the "You didn't warn us!" --- "It's just the flu, nothing serious". You can't have it both ways.

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