2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2482039 12-May-2020 15:55

BarTender:

KrazyKid: I don't think the lack of a contract tracing app is a reason for the limits. Notice we are pretty much following the Aussie guidelines and they almost have an app running.
I am sure the MoH discusses regularly with Aussie health departments and everyone thinks a tracing app is nice to have but not essential.

Pretty much this from what I understand.

The app is still being worked on but I think they are holding off before Google/Apple release their updated APIs and background bluetooth capabilities.

I just discussed exactly this with someone working on the peripheral of the response and my personal view is the whole bluetooth approach should be scrapped or available as a secondary opt-in approach.

My preference is for a purely anonymised QR code exchange between consenting parties. I enter a place of work / restaurant etc they present a custom QR code for me to scan on a tablet and then both locations know about each other. Each person then needs to scan with a new QR code. This equally would apply out and about where the phone could present a QR code for someone you didn't know or "just wanted to remember meeting with then and chatting for 10 mins".

Yes I had heard that one if the next versions of iOS may have some form of covid tracking built into it. Don't know how such a system could get built into android in the short due to the very short period of software updates android phones get, with many people running old versions. Even new phones can take a very long time to get the latest version. So there are all the different versions of phones and android versions out there. So guessing android users would need to rely on an app.

I see in a China they are using some form of QR code system on phones. Eg if you want to go to Disneyland you need a special green one showing yu are virus free. It is getting very big brother.

I am wondering how it works if it is build into an iphone and who controls that. Would the MOH get that info, or does it just send out alerts to people who have been in close contact with someone who reports themselves having the virus?

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cshwone

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#2482044 12-May-2020 16:11

DS248:

No new cases today but in the individual case data yesterdays ‘overseas travel’ case is now showing as having arrived in NZ from France on 15 March.

Yesterdays media release states that it as an ‘imported’ case!

Given that the person had been back in NZ 56 days before she was tested, there can be no assurance that the infection was not picked up locally. More justification for this being imported is required. Or is it just clutching at straws to avoid labelling the source of infection as unknown.

29/04/2020

Female

30 to 39

Nelson Marlborough

Yes

Cook Islands

NZ45

26/03/2020

I find that one a bit strange given that the Cooks are virus free

TeaLeaf

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#2482047 12-May-2020 16:16

blackjack17:

https://www.theverge.com/interface/2020/5/8/21250744/apple-google-contact-tracing-england-germany-exposure-notification-india-privacy

I think this was a good discussion on how the tracking could work and some of the issues involved

Thank you, that was pretty good. It tackled some of the issues I was refering to and more.

To be honest though, if it meant for the betterment of our country I would turn my GPS on and allow a tracing app regardless of being a democracy, I think most would feel the same, especially if the app was garunteed to only send data on your whereabouts not what games your play haha (I tried CoD, my coordination is not built for mobile gaming).

In the states they seem to still be putting their personal rights ahead of the betterment of the country with these mass protests against being "locked up at home" and not being able to do whatever they want. I actually use to think Elon Musk had a pretty good brain, in general, until i listened to some of his comments on his recent return to the Joe Rogan experience podcast. He seemed to basically agree with these protestors and said, if people want to stay at home they should, if they dont, they shouldnt have to, or some words to that effect. To be fair they have had conflicting approaches which seem to change with the wind in the states. Its almost like individual State leaders are mini Presidents. Im so glad NZ is small and has a provincial system

DS248

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#2482048 12-May-2020 16:17

cshwone: ...

29/04/2020 Female 30 to 39 Nelson Marlborough Yes Cook Islands NZ45 26/03/2020

I find that one a bit strange given that the Cooks are virus free

There are a number of others also though that one does stand out due to the Cooks virus free status.

frankv

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#2482063 12-May-2020 16:43

Technofreak:

While I don't condone such action I would suggest that if a church was to conduct a church service, abiding by the same rules as restaurants will be using, the authorities would have a hard time justifying taking action against that church.

I too don't like or usually agree with Brian Tamaki, but on this occasion I think he's got a point. Not the nonsense about his rights under the Bill of Rights being trampled, but just simple fair treatment.

However, one aspect is that at church services people sing, and singing increases the depth of breathing and rate of air expulsion, thus increasing the viral loading and extent of the breath of someone infected. People don't sing (as much) at restaurants and bars. I think there's also that churches promote the idea that "we are all one group who love one another", which involves close proximity and interaction with strangers, and which isn't true of restaurants and bars (except Cheers).

I suspect that Brian Tamaki and his church would pay lip service to any separation rules, and not enforce effective separation into family groups of 10 or less. And, indeed, the "I am washed by the blood of the Lamb, so don't need to worry about my safety" lunacy seems likely. Normally I'd applaud the Darwinism implicit in all of this, but many people in the community would pay the price of his egoism (e.g. the aftermath of the S Korea church cluster).

How many followers does he have? Perhaps he can have them attend in shifts, 10 at a time.

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#2482068 12-May-2020 16:49

frankv:
Technofreak:

While I don't condone such action I would suggest that if a church was to conduct a church service, abiding by the same rules as restaurants will be using, the authorities would have a hard time justifying taking action against that church.

I too don't like or usually agree with Brian Tamaki, but on this occasion I think he's got a point. Not the nonsense about his rights under the Bill of Rights being trampled, but just simple fair treatment.

However, one aspect is that at church services people sing, and singing increases the depth of breathing and rate of air expulsion, thus increasing the viral loading and extent of the breath of someone infected. People don't sing (as much) at restaurants and bars. I think there's also that churches promote the idea that "we are all one group who love one another", which involves close proximity and interaction with strangers, and which isn't true of restaurants and bars (except Cheers).

I suspect that Brian Tamaki and his church would pay lip service to any separation rules, and not enforce effective separation into family groups of 10 or less. And, indeed, the "I am washed by the blood of the Lamb, so don't need to worry about my safety" lunacy seems likely. Normally I'd applaud the Darwinism implicit in all of this, but many people in the community would pay the price of his egoism (e.g. the aftermath of the S Korea church cluster).

How many followers does he have? Perhaps he can have them attend in shifts, 10 at a time.

I agree that it's daft that bars and restaurants are allowed 100 people and churches aren't.

If I was a cynical person I would suggest they sell communion wafers and offer a complimentary service along with it.

That would satisfy the letter of the law but also show it's fairly poorly thought through.

The government either needs to sell this one better or make it consistent.

frankv

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#2482070 12-May-2020 16:56

TeaLeaf:

This is what I meant about how can it work if we are not Communist and cannot force peoples telephony habits. How exactly does the Singapore app work?

Twice you've used the word "Communist" where it's really not appropriate. The word you're looking for is authoritarian or totalitarian. Let's not forget that right-wing regimes have done as much damage as left-wing. And that Singapore is not Communist.

(Apologies for dragging politics into this forum).

But, to answer the question, what we need is a general agreement by individuals to install the app, for their own good. People have all kinds of stuff on their phones that are nowhere near as useful as this has the potential to be. A bit of marketing is needed so that it becomes general knowledge. Think of it as direct democracy -- people can "vote" for the app by installing it.

neb

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#2482071 12-May-2020 16:57

TeaLeaf: I didnt realise Jacinda is a mormon.

Was a Mormon, she left some time ago over the way they treat LGBT folks.

Also, with only 1 kid she wouldn't be a very devout Mormon :-).

neb

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#2482074 12-May-2020 17:03

frankv:
Twice you've used the word "Communist" where it's really not appropriate. The word you're looking for is authoritarian or totalitarian. Let's not forget that right-wing regimes have done as much damage as left-wing. And that Singapore is not Communist.

Could be an age thing, my dad, and several of his friends his age, used "communist" as a term for a universal bogeyman when they wanted to disagree about something politically, e.g. any politician he disagreed with was a "communist", which I'm sure would have surprised several of said politicians.

The current term in the far right is "socialist", because calling someone a communist just shows that you're using a dated reference. And no, "socialist" doesn't mean anything like what you think it means, the far right just uses it as today's universal replacement for "communist".

freitasm

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#2482075 12-May-2020 17:07

Press release:

Millions of dollars in cash support has begun flowing to businesses through the largest tax refund package in modern New Zealand history.

Revenue Minister Stuart Nash says the first week of operation of the $3 billion loss carry-back scheme has seen hundreds of applications refunded by IRD. A second support package, the Small Business Cashflow Loan Scheme, has also gone live.

“More than $62 million in tax refunds have been paid in the first week, to 676 businesses who applied under the loss carry-back provisions,” Mr Nash said. “The tax refunds are a cash lifeline for businesses with non-wage fixed costs, like rent, interest and insurance. Without this support these otherwise viable SMEs may be forced to close.

“My strong advice to businesses is to talk to their accountant, bookkeeper or tax agent, or log onto the MyIR portal, to ensure they take advantage of the government support as quickly as possible.

“A second package of support is available through the Small Business Cashflow Loan Scheme. It is now officially open for business, from today to 12 June. Payments will be made within 5 days of a loan being approved.

“The scheme is already proving very popular. In just the first couple of hours after it opened this morning, more than 6,000 businesses applied for a loan. The total applied for so far exceeds $100 million.

“So whether you are a sole trader, wanting to borrow up to $11,800 interest free, or have 50 staff and want to borrow up to $100,000 interest free, go online to the MyIR site and check out the details.

“In just a couple of weeks, IRD has built an entirely new system to process applications for loans that are interest free if repaid in the first year. These are an important source of working capital for businesses.

“Around 98% of IRD staff in the Capital are working from home during the lockdown. It is a testament to their skills and tenacity that the small business loan scheme has been stood up in such a short space of time.

“The scheme has been brought to life by some of the best public servants in New Zealand, working from their kitchen tables and home offices. They have given specialist briefings to tax agents and the accounting profession to help businesses apply. They have trained call centre staff and dedicated web teams to help answer technical questions. I am grateful for their service,” Mr Nash said.

More information is available here: www.ird.govt.nz/covid-19/business-and-organisations/small-business-cash-flow-loan

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neb

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#2482076 12-May-2020 17:10

Technofreak: There is a multitude of instances in history where people have resorted to civil disobedience in order to get an unreasonable law changed. Just because it is the law it doesn't make it necessarily right.

That was over basic things like opposing having one human being able to own another as property, or getting life in jail for killing a wild rabbit to feed your children, or the use of torture to extract confessions, not because you want to get a bunch of mates together for a pissup.

Fred99

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#2482095 12-May-2020 17:33

Handle9:

I agree that it's daft that bars and restaurants are allowed 100 people and churches aren't.

Restaurants aren't allowed to accept groups of 100 people - only 10.

Your PM explained the rationale for the decision. Stop whining.

Handle9

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#2482100 12-May-2020 17:49

Fred99:

Handle9:

I agree that it's daft that bars and restaurants are allowed 100 people and churches aren't.

Restaurants aren't allowed to accept groups of 100 people - only 10.

Your PM explained the rationale for the decision. Stop whining.

Where did I say that a church would have a single group of 100 people? Stop making things up to get offended by.

nzkiwiman

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#2482101 12-May-2020 17:54

Fred99:

Handle9:

I agree that it's daft that bars and restaurants are allowed 100 people and churches aren't.

Restaurants aren't allowed to accept groups of 100 people - only 10.

Your PM explained the rationale for the decision. Stop whining.

From my understanding, groups of 10 are ok with a max of 100 people allowed in the restaurant if they can follow the three S's (so, it would be 10 groups of 10 is ok)

Fred99

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#2482103 12-May-2020 17:58

DS248:

No new cases today but in the individual case data yesterdays ‘overseas travel’ case is now showing as having arrived in NZ from France on 15 March.

Yesterdays media release states that it as an ‘imported’ case!

Given that the person had been back in NZ 56 days before she was tested, there can be no assurance that the infection was not picked up locally. More justification for this being imported is required. Or is it just clutching at straws to avoid labelling the source of infection as unknown.

From a quick scavenging via google, reports such as this seem to suggest that it might not be unique.

I note that there's been emphasis from MoH to encourage people with any symptoms of basically anything resembling a cold etc to get tested.

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