2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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184 posts

Master Geek

#2507132 18-Jun-2020 11:02

I almost feel sorry for the MOH.

Originally there were no exemptions & you could argue they only came in due to the huge media beat up.

I know there’s also many issues in the hotels, but even then the media have been playing these “prison” story’s possibly making the Govt a bit reluctant for a full lock-down.

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mudguard

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#2507133 18-Jun-2020 11:04

tdgeek:

So, if we dont want any breaches, then we need enough people to manage the three or so thousand in quarantine. Isolation at home maybe cannot be allowed. Exemptions cannot be allowed. Its obvious that each person has to be managed

And this is ultimately the problem. We have to rely on trust, we don't have the numbers I assume to lock everyone down.

1101

3086 posts

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#2507135 18-Jun-2020 11:06

concordnz:

Again the 'discraceful performance' - blame must be laid on the individuals themselves.

Clearly we cannot trust even Returning New Zealanders. To bother CAREING enough to 'do the RIGHT thing'

From day1 , this issue was known about.
From day1, we have had people refusing to stay in isolation. So we do nothing .

Doing the same thing from day1 and expecting a different result .... we have to blame those in charge.

The teenager who couldnt be trused & ran off , somehow now he can be trusted
"The teenager remains in self-isolation at a family property.."

He should have been arrested and put under lock & key . He's proven to be untrustworty. Those in charge do nothing .
Do nothing, expect a better result .

The best outcome would be the Aus govt refusing to let them back in . That would be a sweet punishment .

tdgeek

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#2507136 18-Jun-2020 11:09

On2or3wheels:

I almost feel sorry for the MOH.

Originally there were no exemptions & you could argue they only came in due to the huge media beat up.

I know there’s also many issues in the hotels, but even then the media have been playing these “prison” story’s possibly making the Govt a bit reluctant for a full lock-down.

Thats the thing. I can't imagine the MoH staff and the Police are useless. Some may be lax but overall they have one set of rules. Humans have shown throught this ordeal that they freely flout any rules, no matter what. It seems to me that as humans wont follow the rules, the headcount pof MoH and Police has to be very high so us the humans can be babysat. Then, as you say we will get the "prison" news headlines, well we already do. And the many that complain now, also wanted borders open, get out of Level 4 in what was literally days. Out of Level 3 in literally days, out of level 2 in literally days. It was always a trust issue, if we are not happy now, it has to be a near prison based issue.

tdgeek

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#2507140 18-Jun-2020 11:15

mudguard:

tdgeek:

So, if we dont want any breaches, then we need enough people to manage the three or so thousand in quarantine. Isolation at home maybe cannot be allowed. Exemptions cannot be allowed. Its obvious that each person has to be managed

And this is ultimately the problem. We have to rely on trust, we don't have the numbers I assume to lock everyone down.

Agree. But look everywhere, everyone wants a 100% secure border 100% of the time. Its a bit sad when someone like you or me, need babysitting. Now, we don't, but the authorities, whether they be MoH, Police or Military dont know who the idiots are and there are many, so the only way to solve this is big numbers of people to ensure the quarantine is in fact a quarantine. We need mass babysitters

We can land on a comet and take samples but we can't stay in a facility for 14 days. Maybe we need prisoners to counsel some of these people

1101

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#2507203 18-Jun-2020 11:23

tdgeek:

We can land on a comet and take samples but we can't stay in a facility for 14 days. Maybe we need prisoners to counsel some of these people

Just look overseas to see how it should be done.
2-4 weeks in your room . You arnt allowed out . Its really that simple. Lookout the elevators for 1 or more floors, put a security guard at the stairwell .
Its just not that hard .

Its a few weeks , locked in your room. On entry you argree to this or you go back home. If you agree, you have no basis to complain .
This is how its done in some other Countries . Its just not that hard .

Excuses .......

duckDecoy

794 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#2507211 18-Jun-2020 11:32

Rikkitic:

Two early middle age ladies? Most normal thing in the world. Both getting lost and having someone come out to show the way. Also, don't forget the emotional state they were apparently in due to the sooner than expected death of the relative. I find it completely believable. The part that bothers me is allowing them to drive all the way to Wellington in that state.

I am unsure if you know much about that hotel Rikktic, but it is literally next to the motorway, and there's a massive sign right after you drive out of the hotel telling you how to get onto the motorway, and its even sign written on the damn lane. I am finding it pretty difficult to swallow myself.

tdgeek

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#2507252 18-Jun-2020 11:32

1101:

tdgeek:

We can land on a comet and take samples but we can't stay in a facility for 14 days. Maybe we need prisoners to counsel some of these people

Just look overseas to see how it should be done.
2-4 weeks in your room . You arnt allowed out . Its really that simple. Lookout the elevators for 1 or more floors, put a security guard at the stairwell .
Its just not that hard .

Its a few weeks , locked in your room. On entry you argree to this or you go back home. If you agree, you have no basis to complain .
This is how its done in some other Countries . Its just not that hard .

Excuses .......

Yes, its not hard. How many more MoH staff members and Police do we need? An extra 20, or an extra 1000?

FineWine

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#2507266 18-Jun-2020 11:46

Full geo tagged electrified ankle bracelets with a 50m freedom range. Cheaper overall than a hotel room or one on one manned watches.

But seriously folks the only way is a one stop facility managed by the military. How about Little Barrier Island in the Hauraki Gulf. The yanks had Ellis Island in the middle of New York bay and that certainly had a huge impact in preventing large scale infectious disease outbreaks in the USA. Quarantine or interment facilities have been used throughout history, it is just that we have become overly sensitive and selfish to our so called personal rights and freedoms.

As Spock said; “Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Captain Kirk answers, “Or the one.”

Come on Team New Zealand there is no I in Team.

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concordnz

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EMT (R)

#2507270 18-Jun-2020 11:59

1101:
The teenager who couldnt be trused & ran off , somehow now he can be trusted
"The teenager remains in self-isolation at a family property.."

He should have been arrested and put under lock & key . He's proven to be untrustworty. Those in charge do nothing .
Do nothing, expect a better result .

The best outcome would be the Aus govt refusing to let them back in . That would be a sweet punishment .

Unfortunately Lawyers won't let those type of consequences happen. - lawyers are part of the problem
(They are already ganging up on the Govt - trying to condemn them(and tie their hands going forward) for what was a highly successful Level 4)

vexxxboy

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#2507274 18-Jun-2020 12:05

duckDecoy:

Rikkitic:

Two early middle age ladies? Most normal thing in the world. Both getting lost and having someone come out to show the way. Also, don't forget the emotional state they were apparently in due to the sooner than expected death of the relative. I find it completely believable. The part that bothers me is allowing them to drive all the way to Wellington in that state.

I am unsure if you know much about that hotel Rikktic, but it is literally next to the motorway, and there's a massive sign right after you drive out of the hotel telling you how to get onto the motorway, and its even sign written on the damn lane. I am finding it pretty difficult to swallow myself.

not to mention their phones , how hard is it to enter Wellington and follow the arrow.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#2507275 18-Jun-2020 12:06

GV27:

Rikkitic:

Two early middle age ladies? Most normal thing in the world. Both getting lost and having someone come out to show the way. Also, don't forget the emotional state they were apparently in due to the sooner than expected death of the relative. I find it completely believable. The part that bothers me is allowing them to drive all the way to Wellington in that state.

We're not talking 'middle-aged' here - one was in their 30s. Show me anyone in their 30s who doesn't know how to use Google Maps.

I have known more than one 30 year-old lady who was definitely 'middle-aged'. It is a state of mind, not a number of years. There are plenty of powerful, dynamic, capable women (and men) over 30 and under it who can deal with anything tossed at them. Jacinda Ardern is just one of them. But there are also some, and I have known a few, who fall well within the tossed salad and scrambled eggs category. I can easily imagine one looking at a map the wrong way round and being confused by the sign pointing south.

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xlinknz

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#2507278 18-Jun-2020 12:10

A very good interview this morning on Radio NZ here with Sir David Skegg (he starts at approx 19:00)

key points from my perspective were

AIR NZ staff can flight domestically after 48 hrs of being crew on Intl flights and staying in hotels in Covid-19 hot spots such as USA where they cannot easily self isolate. This is a significant risk
A negative test after 2 or 3 days does not mean you are not infectious (so we should not 'celebrate' negative tests e.g. the women that came into contact with the 2 recent positive tests)
He and other epidemiologists have wondered why NZ has not had any new cases for 28 or so days. His conclusion is because testing at the border and quarantine has not being occurring as it should have. He cannot believe none of the 350 arrivals per day arriving and having being in in quarantine or self isolation has not had a single positive test. He cites yesterday in Victoria of the 21 new cases 15 were from those in quarantine and these people presumably are arriving from similar locations as those arriving into NZ.

He also is disappointed that despite our vaunted testing capability NZ has not being testing where it is most critically required

concordnz

420 posts

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EMT (R)

#2507289 18-Jun-2020 12:27

The so-called 'friends' who guided them back on the motorway also need resounding condemnation. - they knew the rules of non contact the 2 ladies were under (they dropped the car off) - their was Apsolutely ZERO reason for either party to get out of their car and greet.

Both parties should have stayed in their cars with windows wound up. (If they needed to talk they clearly had mobiles)

Instead these so-called 'friends' recklessly endangered the lives & livelyhoods of everybody they subsequently came in contact with.

These individuals are no 'friends' of New Zealand.
The media needs to be condemning their actions just as much!
Sadly a deathly silence from the media in this respect.

sittingduckz

675 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2507292 18-Jun-2020 12:36

FineWine:

Full geo tagged electrified ankle bracelets with a 50m freedom range. Cheaper overall than a hotel room or one on one manned watches.

But seriously folks the only way is a one stop facility managed by the military. How about Little Barrier Island in the Hauraki Gulf. The yanks had Ellis Island in the middle of New York bay and that certainly had a huge impact in preventing large scale infectious disease outbreaks in the USA. Quarantine or interment facilities have been used throughout history, it is just that we have become overly sensitive and selfish to our so called personal rights and freedoms.

As Spock said; “Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Captain Kirk answers, “Or the one.”

Come on Team New Zealand there is no I in Team.

The prison on Total Recall (1990) is the way to go :)

I'm not a complete idiot, I still have some parts missing.

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