2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2510255 23-Jun-2020 09:26

tdgeek:
........and AC Digby has been there a month as well, still failures. An MP is now involved, Police and Military numbers have been increased. So, when we will we accept that things have improved?

Who is AC Digby? Is he a rap artist?

If you mean Air Commodore Darryn Webb, known to his friends and Air Force colleagues as “Digby” then please get his name right. If only for historical reasons. And not in charge for a month (as Newshub claimed), just providing resources when asked.

Still, in a thread where Ashley Bloomfield is referred to as “Dr A”, I can’t hope for too much (unless of course he is part of a secret witness program) (/tongue in cheek).

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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wellygary

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#2510300 23-Jun-2020 09:29

lxsw20:

Govt considering a co-payments for people in Quarantine in the coming weeks. Be interesting to see what $ they come up with.

Its political window dressing and its likely to be a token amount ...

And to be Honest spending $300 million a year quarantining all returning NZers doesn't worry me that much,

If you consider that the government is still looking at ways to spend $20 billion for the COVID recovery, $300 million is just 1.5% of that total....

MikeB4

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#2510305 23-Jun-2020 09:32

Wander4821:

Sounds like a Donald Trump solution to close borders as well, as what if Covid-19 is persistent into next year globally.

Question to ask would be, could NZ really afford to close off to business travellers, tourists, and international students that long, even with potential Covid-19 re-introduction as a risk?

Because even if hypothetically the best measures are taken, there will be slip ups. NZ could realistically be going back and forth between no cases and some cases for some time yet, and there will be growing pressure to let those travellers in for economic reasons.

The vital question is could New Zealand survive another level 4/3 lock down, I believe the answer is very clearly no it could not, it would wreck our economy for decades. Business travellers do not need to come here as there is technology available that makes that redundant. International students we just have to live without them for a bit. I also feel New Zealand's obsession with overseas travel is impacting us badly right now and that needs to stop. Those currently overseas unless they can prove they have zero option to returning should stay where they are.

MikeB4

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#2510309 23-Jun-2020 09:41

tdgeek:

Yep. thats an option. The incomings are now kept away from us, they are testing at day 3 and 12 and when they leave, there are no exceptions for compassionate grounds, thats a start. When will they have their act together? The Police failed as they physically managed this. Same woth the military who have been there all along and AC Digby has been there a month as well, still failures. An MP is now involved, Police and Military numbers have been increased. So, when we will we accept that things have improved?

My understanding and I would call on @dejadeadnz to advise here but unless deputised or given specific authority by parliament the Defence Force has very limited authority over civilians. The Military Police for example only has authority over civilians on Defence property.

tdgeek

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#2510319 23-Jun-2020 09:54

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

Yep. thats an option. The incomings are now kept away from us, they are testing at day 3 and 12 and when they leave, there are no exceptions for compassionate grounds, thats a start. When will they have their act together? The Police failed as they physically managed this. Same woth the military who have been there all along and AC Digby has been there a month as well, still failures. An MP is now involved, Police and Military numbers have been increased. So, when we will we accept that things have improved?

My understanding and I would call on @dejadeadnz to advise here but unless deputised or given specific authority by parliament the Defence Force has very limited authority over civilians. The Military Police for example only has authority over civilians on Defence property.

As per

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300039789/auckland-isolation-hotel-goes-from-fawlty-towers-to-tight-ship it "appears" to be improved.

Its management, I dont think its a case of Military Police force. AC Webb now has management authority, MP Woods works with him, they took on double the military numbers 36 to 72, more Police, so it appears that it was understaffed, and/or the Police could not manage it, they seem to have been moved aside, management wise so the Webb/Woods are running the logistics there now. And its made a difference, which is all that really matters

MikeB4

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#2510331 23-Jun-2020 10:28

tdgeek:

As per

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300039789/auckland-isolation-hotel-goes-from-fawlty-towers-to-tight-ship it "appears" to be improved.

Its management, I dont think its a case of Military Police force. AC Webb now has management authority, MP Woods works with him, they took on double the military numbers 36 to 72, more Police, so it appears that it was understaffed, and/or the Police could not manage it, they seem to have been moved aside, management wise so the Webb/Woods are running the logistics there now. And its made a difference, which is all that really matters

I simply do not believe the spin from the Beehive and all its little drones anymore.

tdgeek

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#2510333 23-Jun-2020 10:35

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

As per

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300039789/auckland-isolation-hotel-goes-from-fawlty-towers-to-tight-ship it "appears" to be improved.

Its management, I dont think its a case of Military Police force. AC Webb now has management authority, MP Woods works with him, they took on double the military numbers 36 to 72, more Police, so it appears that it was understaffed, and/or the Police could not manage it, they seem to have been moved aside, management wise so the Webb/Woods are running the logistics there now. And its made a difference, which is all that really matters

I simply do not believe the spin from the Beehive and all its little drones anymore.

Ok.

duckDecoy

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#2510356 23-Jun-2020 11:03

tdgeek:

I get the feeling here that the desire is no passenger planes to arrive at all, period. If it was decreed that the border issues are all solved and its secure, is everybody happy to allow arrivals? Doesnt seem so IMO

Im not sure I get that feeling tdgeek, the feeling I get is we have lost faith and want to retreat into our shell until those in charge prove they deserve our trust. Lots of us here have heavily evidence based personalities, so we rely on what we see rather than the platitudes and promises we hear.

tdgeek

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#2510358 23-Jun-2020 11:12

duckDecoy:

tdgeek:

I get the feeling here that the desire is no passenger planes to arrive at all, period. If it was decreed that the border issues are all solved and its secure, is everybody happy to allow arrivals? Doesnt seem so IMO

Im not sure I get that feeling tdgeek, the feeling I get is we have lost faith and want to retreat into our shell until those in charge prove they deserve our trust. Lots of us here have heavily evidence based personalities, so we rely on what we see rather than the platitudes and promises we hear.

There has been issues. Had I been in a bunker for a few months and read all this today, I would have assumed that the country is plagued with positive tested passengers having lattes everywhere. The fact is border security has been poorly managed, plenty of people to blame, but it hasnt resulted in an exodus of masses into the wider community. Most of the mismanagement has been within the centres. Indications are that new management is well on the way to tidying this up.

GV27

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#2510381 23-Jun-2020 11:34

tdgeek:

but it hasnt resulted in an exodus of masses into the wider community.

This is the bit people are worried about, not the current facility. Given the extra time we spent at L4 'to be sure', it seems like it's pretty soon to say definitively that it isn't in the community yet.

tdgeek

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#2510391 23-Jun-2020 11:48

GV27:

tdgeek:

but it hasnt resulted in an exodus of masses into the wider community.

This is the bit people are worried about, not the current facility. Given the extra time we spent at L4 'to be sure', it seems like it's pretty soon to say definitively that it isn't in the community yet.

Yep. I didnt say none were. From day one and every day sience, we expect more cases, in the community, long tail, etc. if there was, we are far better placed now than when we had plenty of cases. We are far better off than if L4 was cut short, L3 was cut short and so on, which was the plan, plus all the bubbles. Thats where we dodged a bullet, not now

Rikkitic

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#2510393 23-Jun-2020 11:52

I have avoided this discussion until now because I did not feel I have anything to contribute that others haven't already done to death. As the saying goes, I am not a lawyer and I am also not a medical expert or health care professional.

Anyway, here is my highly inexpert opinion on the matter at hand: As a vulnerable individual, I was, and remain, extremely grateful for the actions of our authorities in limiting the spread of Covid19. I believe they got a lot more right than they got wrong. The lax and incoherent 'she'll be right' actions at the border are inexcusable and deplorable, but they don't appear to have led to any new major outbreaks. Maybe we have just been lucky.

I don't think the authorities are lying through their teeth to cover their sloppiness. I think they made some big mistakes and have done their best to rectify those.

It is intriguing to see how quickly the PM and Dr Bloemfield went from hero to zero. The media, and some posters here, remind me of geese. Anyone who has ever walked past some will know what I mean. They scatter like cowards as you approach, then gang up and come after you honking bravely once you are safely past.

Of course things could still take a turn for the worst, but as of right now, we seem to be one of the few places in the world where the virus has been contained, with no sign so far of new community transmission. People are able to go shopping and participate in other daily activities without feeling they are taking their lives in their hands every time they go out. That is certainly worth something. Most of the world still sees New Zealand as an extremely desirable place to be.

Criticism is warranted where justified, and some bad mistakes were made. That shouldn't be glossed over. But who would we replace Jacinda Ardern and Ashley Bloemfield with? I am glad they are running the show and I can't think of anyone I would rather have in their place. They and many others are doing the best they can in extraordinary circumstances. Instead of honking at them, we should be thanking them. But that is just my opinion.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

mattwnz

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#2510396 23-Jun-2020 11:57

duckDecoy:
tdgeek:

I get the feeling here that the desire is no passenger planes to arrive at all, period. If it was decreed that the border issues are all solved and its secure, is everybody happy to allow arrivals? Doesnt seem so IMO

Im not sure I get that feeling tdgeek, the feeling I get is we have lost faith and want to retreat into our shell until those in charge prove they deserve our trust. Lots of us here have heavily evidence based personalities, so we rely on what we see rather than the platitudes and promises we hear.

I agree. People just want it managed properly and the border systems to be water tight. People were perfectly happy with people returning but expected it was a watertight system when it wasn’t. That is the only issue here.

tdgeek

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#2510399 23-Jun-2020 12:06

mattwnz:

I agree. People just want it managed properly and the border systems to be water tight. People were perfectly happy with people returning but expected it was a watertight system when it wasn’t. That is the only issue here.

Cool. I guess the task to keep watertight has been seen by many as easy, and it failed. I take it for what it was, a very diffcult issue, involving a lot of people in a lot of locations, some of whom play up. Not easy. It looks like the Police are out and others are in, its better now, and no doubt it was under resourced, thats also been fixed. Testoing probably caught up now too

Plenty of people flying in now so it's ok now hopefully. 590 is todays arrivals

vexxxboy

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#2510401 23-Jun-2020 12:08

i have been saying this for days

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/2020/06/23/1243845/the-media-needs-to-calm-down

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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