2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2510780 23-Jun-2020 18:24

mattwnz:

Wasn't that when we were still under level 4,3 and then 2? So most people were isolated anyway. The problem we now have is that we are in level 1, which is essentially back to normal internally, so there is significantly more mixing going on.. I am guessing that is one reason they are now requiring more testing, to reduce the risk at the border even more, as these additional testing requirements appear to have come in as we moved down to level 1.

The should be zero cases getting through the border into the community. If one does, then that indicates a hole in the system.

More mixing in a covid free environment.

The extra testing appears to be a result of frenzy. I isolated, no one tested me. That worked. Isolate the arrivals, test if symptoms so you can add extra care for the infected. The rest of them that are not infected wait it out as part of national security. Then they go.

Yes, zero cases should get to the community. As they get tested negative before they head to the cafe.

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#2510782 23-Jun-2020 18:25

duckDecoy:

There is a bit of loss of context here, could there be CT from people who have been released. We now know isolation protocols were not great, so asymptomatic at release does not ensure they were not infectious. This is different to what may be happening now things have tightened.

They leave when they get tested prior to leaving and are negative.

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#2510785 23-Jun-2020 18:28

mattwnz:

New issues are shown by his story

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/121917273/coronavirus-scotland-to-nz-and-two-weeks-quarantine-but-no-test

People in quarantine appear to be allowed to socialise when smoking. Some even allegedly arranged room parties, even though it was prevented. Why are these people even arranging parties in their isolation hotel? Seems some are just trying to get away with what they can, which imo shows we can't trust people to do the right thing.

We know that when the virus is in a facility like resthome, or cruise ship, that that virus has the potential spread amongst people, and stay active for months as it passes between people. My understanding is, that if someone has had the potential to infect someone else in the hotel, eg say on day 5, it essentially resets the 14 days for that person who has been exposed to the virus on day 5, when they get potentially infected from that person in the hotel Or am I wrong on this?

I thought they were all being kept totally isolated from one another in their rooms, and not allowed to socialise with other people, even on the same plane

Thats a concerning article, apart from that it was

The woman flew into the country on May 26 and served out quarantine at the Crowne Plaza Hotel in Auckland.

xlinknz

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#2510795 23-Jun-2020 18:52

tdgeek:

Thats a concerning article, apart from that it was

The woman flew into the country on May 26 and served out quarantine at the Crowne Plaza Hotel in Auckland.

Indeed I wonder whether the media plan to run a retrospective article for every of one the thousands who never had a test (but did complete the 14 days managed isolation or quarantine) sigh...

I also noted the following in this piece of journalism "She was also allowed to socialise with other travellers in smoking areas, and he says it is just “pure luck” the virus has not breached the border." Presumably she didn't act as if she had Covid-19 i.e. practice appropriate social distancing before socializing with other smokers.

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#2510801 23-Jun-2020 19:03

xlinknz:

tdgeek:

Thats a concerning article, apart from that it was

The woman flew into the country on May 26 and served out quarantine at the Crowne Plaza Hotel in Auckland.

Indeed I wonder whether the media plan to run a retrospective article for every of one the thousands who never had a test (but did complete the 14 days managed isolation or quarantine) sigh...

I also noted the following in this piece of journalism "She was also allowed to socialise with other travellers in smoking areas, and he says it is just “pure luck” the virus has not breached the border." Presumably she didn't act as if she had Covid-19 i.e. practice appropriate social distancing before socializing with other smokers.

What I find annoying is I defend something as I believe in it, and it gets negated by a month old article when things were not managed well which we all agree.

Keep it relevant or keep it true???

Sky News AUS on, 18 new cases today in AUS, 4 from recent overseas arrivals the other 14 are CT.

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#2510803 23-Jun-2020 19:08

Lockdown imminent in Victoria, panic buying

concordnz

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#2510804 23-Jun-2020 19:11

duckDecoy:
Batman:

so we should have been getting 1-2 cases a day when we had "zero" cases for the gazillion days prior to this week - would that be correct?

Based on the week past and the OZ experience this seems likely. The timeline is:

- prior to last week testing wasn't happening = 0 cases.

- last week start testing = immediately 1-2 cases per day.

No
Not necessarily.
I understand flights a coming from a wider variety of 'hot spots' - than they were 2-3 weeks ago.
We have a growing increase now predominantly because we are taking people from 'poorly managed' countries (& not testing clear before they depart)

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#2510806 23-Jun-2020 19:18

mattwnz:

But anyone know why they are now not testing everyone upon entry into NZ? eg on day 1.

There is a very good reason for not testing on day 1.

It takes 2-3 days for the virus to get established enough to appear on a nasal Swab.

If we tested everyone on day 1 - We would get False Negatives -
(of anyone who has caught it on the flight over or at departing/arriving airports.)

By waiting till Day 3 to for the 1st test.
- You capture ALL those infected before they got on the plane as well as ALL that got infected 'in-transit'.

concordnz

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#2510810 23-Jun-2020 19:27

It's great to see in tonight's news - that there is going to be increased testing of air crews & airport staff.

The announcement was 'light on details'
So if anyone finds documented details - please share, so we can understand/analysis the new rules in these areas.

pinkydot

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#2510917 23-Jun-2020 20:18

Is there a list of all managed isolation hotels they using? Would be easy for people who thinking holiday locally don't have to search all those hotels that in the list of managed isolation and able to help those hotels that are not using for managed isolation.

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#2511065 23-Jun-2020 21:53

concordnz: It's great to see in tonight's news - that there is going to be increased testing of air crews & airport staff.

The announcement was 'light on details'
So if anyone finds documented details - please share, so we can understand/analysis the new rules in these areas.

Air crew are still classified as "Excluded arrivals" On the current Orders of the director general of health:

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/covid-19-section_701eeaf_extension_and_amendment_21_april_2020.pdf

And the document that the above amends:

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/covid-19-section_70_order_9_april_2020.pdf

As this section 70 order can't compel air crew to undergo testing. The work "All" is used in the media, pretty hard to achieve that unless people are compelled.

The ministry of health requirements for air crew was last updated on the 16th of June, so it won't be there either:

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-information-specific-audiences/covid-19-resources-air-crew-and-border-sector

That web-page has be updated to include the following:

Why don’t air crew have to wear PPE and masks when in the community?

Because Air crew must follow strict protocols while they are overseas to protect themselves against COVID-19 they don't need to take any additional measures when they return to NewZealand - this includes not having to wear masks or PPE.

Is it safe to have aircrew in my business?

Yes, they are as safe as anybody else who comes into your business. It is important that business owners continue to implement the controls required of them for the Alert level in place at the time.

My children go to school with children of air crew are they safe?

Yes. There are measures in place to manage the risks of air crew being exposed to COVID-19.

I would like to see basis for the above statement "Yes, they are as safe as anybody else who comes into your business". This seems counter to intuition. International air crew travel to covid-19 hotspots, and risk exposure from everything from the crew bus driver to the elevator buttons at the hotel. Not to mention that on the return leg the cabin crew are working in close proximity with people that are potentially contagious.

Hopefully the testing, based on how many asymptomatic (hopefully non contagious) air crew turn up will allow us to re-access the risk posed before there is an outbreak.

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#2511095 23-Jun-2020 22:46

This was posted on one of the expat groups I am on. Take it as you will...

Okay the one sided reporting coming out of the media is really starting to piss me off. I stayed two weeks at this hotel. I never once in that time came within two metres of any guest or staff member. No one I spoke to from my flight had seen any problems either. There was even a guy with a giant camera who came the day the first two cases were detect and watched the exercise area for an hour before leaving empty handed.
The nurses were very friendly and certainly weren't going home crying when I stopped by late for my check the occasional night (if you forgot to go they would call into our rooms around 7pm to remind us!). Our daily checks included a temperature check, an inquiry about symptoms and how we were coping with the isolation.
Neither myself nor anyone else I met in the hotel had any fears they were going to be infected by others in the hotel.
The food was excellent and not once in 14 days did any of the meals come late (hours for my floor were 7.30am, 11.30am, and 6.30pm).
The two Wellington cases were detected the day before I left (they were from the other Novatel), and the nurses and the ministry kept us up to date with what was going to happen. It was clear they were moving quickly to respond to the ministry's ongoing changes. By 10pm that night I had received a call from a NZDF member to update me that no one would be leaving the next day without a positive test. We were all expecting it. Thankfully I had been one of the two thirds on my flight that took the at that stage voluntary 12th day test (as our flight came in a few days before the regulations were changed, the understanding on the ground was that testing for our batch of arrivals was voluntary). The labs in Auckland had been struggling with the increased testing regime so my results took a full 50 hours to come, but I was still able to get out on my 14th day. Those who hadn't taken the test were scheduled for a test the next day (their 14th day) but as I was freed I don't have any updates on them. Last I heard the labs had been prioritizing our flights tests.
Honestly, the hotel, NZDF and ministry of Health staff could not have been more professional or friendly, which was very much appreciated as even after being in isolation for two months in Buenos Aires, quarantine in a hotel room was quite a bit more difficult. It was quite obvious that the team cared not just about our physical health but our mental health as well.

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#2511099 23-Jun-2020 23:11

Regarding the above, my take is that there must be significant variation between the different facilities, and possibly a few poorly behaving groups have been responsible for the negitive headlines.

I must say it makes a pleasant change from the barrage of negitive stories such as people in isolation having guests over, room parties, lobby birthday parties, people sneaking out of isolation to go to the supermarket for booze & snacks etc.

Sadly I think we need to move to management with a lower trust level. For example in Australia people in isolation aren't given room keys etc.

mattwnz

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#2511101 23-Jun-2020 23:22

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

Wasn't that when we were still under level 4,3 and then 2? So most people were isolated anyway. The problem we now have is that we are in level 1, which is essentially back to normal internally, so there is significantly more mixing going on.. I am guessing that is one reason they are now requiring more testing, to reduce the risk at the border even more, as these additional testing requirements appear to have come in as we moved down to level 1.

The should be zero cases getting through the border into the community. If one does, then that indicates a hole in the system.

More mixing in a covid free environment.

The extra testing appears to be a result of frenzy. I isolated, no one tested me. That worked. Isolate the arrivals, test if symptoms so you can add extra care for the infected. The rest of them that are not infected wait it out as part of national security. Then they go.

Yes, zero cases should get to the community. As they get tested negative before they head to the cafe.

The problem, and I haven't seen much mention so far in the media, is what happens when we start getting 50, or 100 positive cases a day from incoming travelers? Or even more, as higher percentages on the plane test positive. This virus appear to be now rampant in high risk countries like India. We are not talking a million new infections a week, and the rate will only increase significantly.

Could NZ cope with 20% or more of the plane being infected? We are also likely to end up with more requiring hospitisiation. Then when that happens there is the increased risk of it then getting into our community, like occurred with a previous hospital cluster, where nurses got it.

I think a lot more needs to be done to try and bring in people who are clear of the virus. Fining airlines is one idea I have heard, which would likely mean requiring a big deposit from those traveling in.

Also I think we need any hospitalization to also be in the quarantine, rather than bringing these cases out into the communities hospitals.

NZs expert Professor on this was on TV tonight basically said that we are really only at the start of this virus, and 4 billion people could be infected eventually, and 10s of millions may eventually die.

mattwnz

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#2511102 23-Jun-2020 23:26

concordnz:
mattwnz:

But anyone know why they are now not testing everyone upon entry into NZ? eg on day 1.

There is a very good reason for not testing on day 1.

It takes 2-3 days for the virus to get established enough to appear on a nasal Swab.

If we tested everyone on day 1 - We would get False Negatives -
(of anyone who has caught it on the flight over or at departing/arriving airports.)

By waiting till Day 3 to for the 1st test.
- You capture ALL those infected before they got on the plane as well as ALL that got infected 'in-transit'.

Testing on day 1 of arrival into NZ isn't likely to be day 1 of when they were infected with it, unless they got infected coming in at Auckland airport. They may have been infected up to 14 days prior, back in the country they came from.
If they already have the virus on arrival and mild symptoms, it may have been longer, because some people can have the virus up to 6 weeks.

The purpose of the day 1 test into NZ is just to filter people out. The more testing, the more likely of detecting cases, and also reduces the risk of false negatives occurring.

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