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16406 posts

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  #2512901 26-Jun-2020 14:20
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KrazyKid:

 

 

 

You would have to say that the right result has probably happened given we have now managed 28 days without a local case since starting level 2.
You could argue we were lucky and playing with fire, or accept the MoH was playing it overly save and the economic health of the country also effects personal heath outcomes.

 

Either way it looks like we have most likely eliminated it for now in NZ.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if one reason he recommended longer, so there was also enough time to get the contact tracing up to the 'gold standard'?

 

But the situation got too political at that time, and many people were already relaxing things. But IMO, to be cautious, he was probably right to want to extended level 2. Level 2 is all really about restricting gathering sizes, as that could be a major problem if an outbreak occurs.

 

Level 1, we are really vulnerable, especially with all the Covid cases coming into NZ, and how easily it spreads. Contact tracing could be difficult, especially as few people are now tracking their activities it seems.

 

 

 

The problem NZ obviously has is with all the incoming people on lane that have the virus. There are lots of potential places where hole could occur. Allowing air crew from some of these hot spots and airline, and trusting them to  self isolate and not require testing at all IMO is a potential hole.

 

 

 

If NZ gets new local cases, the odds are they have come in through the border and the case got through a hole.

 

IMO we need to minimize cases being brought in by airlines. One way is to fine airlines, which means airlines may put up their pricing to reflect this risk, which is an indirect way for NZ to help pay for the quarantine costs. That also means airlines will do far more to. Physical seperation on plane, masks etc, all should be getting done. It is nuts that international planes are just being filled to the max IMO.IMO this isn't acceptable in a post covid world where the virus is on fire outside NZ


1133 posts

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  #2512903 26-Jun-2020 14:25
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Attitude check: yesterday, Lufthansa has got 9 billion € by German state in exchange of 20% of it's shares to prevent bankruptcy.





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  #2512906 26-Jun-2020 14:28
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Scientists looking at whether gargling salt water could help (covid sx and transmission). It can't be possible surely. This will surely get the conspiracies going.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12343250




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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Uber Geek


  #2512913 26-Jun-2020 14:41
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Repeated nearly word from word by several outlets.

I suspect source is from Edinburgh University, probably a press release by Edinburgh professor Aziz Sheikh.

It'd be nice if reporters actually did some follow-up, rather than quoting a press release verbatim.

This article goes into a little more depth

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/26211/20200625/gargling-salt-water-treat-covid-19-scientists-set-test-effectivity.htm

"In a report by MSN in April this year, Dr. Srinath Reddy, president of the Public Health Foundation of India, noted that there is no scientifically proven evidence yet that regularly rinsing the nose and mouth with saline can work against the virus.

Gargling, a common hygiene routine in several countries, is encouraged with other practices such as hand washing and social distancing, especially during the pandemic crisis.

Though it helps soothe a sore throat, there is no evidence yet that it can prevent the person from contracting the virus, according to the Harvard T H Chan School of Public Health."



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  #2512919 26-Jun-2020 14:50
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kingdragonfly:
freitasm:

I haven't watched this earlier...


So the guy who broke the lockdown twice decides to kick the guy who actually did the good work?


Damn you David Clark.



David Clark's smirk at the end speaks volumes.

I have a friend at Wellington hospital. He said most hospital old-timers hold the the Ministry of Health in low regard, doubly so for David Clark.

Instead of buck passing, and opinion spinning, David needs to lead, follow or get out of the way (give the job to someone else).


Yeah I know right, coz Dr A runs the MOH, is in charge of the border, immigration, the airlines, the flights, the labs, the quarantine centers, the hotels, the schools, the education system. While the govt is responsible for none of those things. Does none of them have a brain? (Other than the PM.)




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




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  #2512920 26-Jun-2020 14:53
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mattwnz:

KrazyKid:


 


You would have to say that the right result has probably happened given we have now managed 28 days without a local case since starting level 2.
You could argue we were lucky and playing with fire, or accept the MoH was playing it overly save and the economic health of the country also effects personal heath outcomes.


Either way it looks like we have most likely eliminated it for now in NZ.



 


I wonder if one reason he recommended longer, so there was also enough time to get the contact tracing up to the 'gold standard'?


But the situation got too political at that time, and many people were already relaxing things. But IMO, to be cautious, he was probably right to want to extended level 2. Level 2 is all really about restricting gathering sizes, as that could be a major problem if an outbreak occurs.


Level 1, we are really vulnerable, especially with all the Covid cases coming into NZ, and how easily it spreads. Contact tracing could be difficult, especially as few people are now tracking their activities it seems.


 


The problem NZ obviously has is with all the incoming people on lane that have the virus. There are lots of potential places where hole could occur. Allowing air crew from some of these hot spots and airline, and trusting them to  self isolate and not require testing at all IMO is a potential hole.


 


If NZ gets new local cases, the odds are they have come in through the border and the case got through a hole.


IMO we need to minimize cases being brought in by airlines. One way is to fine airlines, which means airlines may put up their pricing to reflect this risk, which is an indirect way for NZ to help pay for the quarantine costs. That also means airlines will do far more to. Physical seperation on plane, masks etc, all should be getting done. It is nuts that international planes are just being filled to the max IMO.IMO this isn't acceptable in a post covid world where the virus is on fire outside NZ



NZ could be in level 2 for 2 years I don't care. But since the govt doesn't (? Didn't) know how to manage the border what's the point? (don't think you can blame dr A for border leaks. Seriously he's a public health doctor not immigration expert. The MOH has really thrown him under the bus, having made zero contribution it seems to the border leaks.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #2512939 26-Jun-2020 14:57
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freitasm:

 

When I was tested I was asked for the number and if I log into my practice's system I can see the results there since it came out... So not sure when/where the numbers were not being collected.

 

 

Yes, I think it's more credible that their NHIs weren't associated with the accommodation side of things, but were with the lab tests. Police or NZDF staff wouldn't have any way to find peoples' NHIs.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2512940 26-Jun-2020 14:57
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Batman: Scientists looking at whether gargling salt water could help (covid sx and transmission). It can't be possible surely. This will surely get the conspiracies going.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12343250

 

 

 

This is another take on the "Gargle" theory... A few months ago it was mouthwash.. not sure what became of those studies,

 

But Listerine has plenty of "No" responses on its website- i'm guessing these were put up by their lawyers to get ahead of any potential lawsuits.....

 

https://www.listerine.com/covid-19-update#does-rinsing-with-listerine-antiseptic-mouthwash-kill-the-covid-19-virus


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  #2512981 26-Jun-2020 15:05
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mattwnz:

 

KrazyKid:

 

You would have to say that the right result has probably happened given we have now managed 28 days without a local case since starting level 2.
You could argue we were lucky and playing with fire, or accept the MoH was playing it overly save and the economic health of the country also effects personal heath outcomes.

 

Either way it looks like we have most likely eliminated it for now in NZ.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if one reason he recommended longer, so there was also enough time to get the contact tracing up to the 'gold standard'?

 

But the situation got too political at that time, and many people were already relaxing things.

 

 

The DG of Health would quite rightly be recommending what he thought was best (or good enough) for the health of NZers. But the decision on what actually happened was rightly made by Cabinet, taking into account a whole lot of other factors such as economic cost, international relations, political issues, the effect on the racing industry, and all the rest. Sometimes the health issues outweigh all the others, sometimes they don't.

 

 


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  #2512986 26-Jun-2020 15:17
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wellygary:

 

Batman: Scientists looking at whether gargling salt water could help (covid sx and transmission). It can't be possible surely. This will surely get the conspiracies going.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12343250

 

This is another take on the "Gargle" theory... A few months ago it was mouthwash.. not sure what became of those studies,

 

 

I guess that washing out part of the upper respiratory tract must get rid of some viruses, so must help prevent getting the disease. Possibly it might also help prevent you from spreading the disease too. Washing out with something that kills viruses would be even better.

 

After work, I'm going home to pour a mixture of ethanol and water into my throat. Purely for medicinal purposes.

 

 


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  #2513006 26-Jun-2020 15:37
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frankv:

 

 

 

The DG of Health would quite rightly be recommending what he thought was best (or good enough) for the health of NZers. But the decision on what actually happened was rightly made by Cabinet, taking into account a whole lot of other factors such as economic cost, international relations, political issues, the effect on the racing industry, and all the rest. Sometimes the health issues outweigh all the others, sometimes they don't.

 

 

 

 

It is possibly similar to the MOH initially recommending that incoming flights cease, to stop the virus getting into the country. But the government couldn't do that as NZers apparently have the right to return to NZ at any time. 

 

We just don't want to repeat the same type of mistakes, with the virus finding new holes to get through into the community. Self isoaltion was supposed to be a way to prevnt it getting through the border, but that obviously didn't work. The virus coming into NZ via incoming flights, is a very risky situation IMO for NZ, even with managed isolation or quarantine, there is still a  risk there if a mistake is made, and billions of dollars, and lives are at risk from it getting into the community through any holes in the border.


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Master Geek


  #2513008 26-Jun-2020 15:39
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Well frankv , I ran out of quotes.

 

I would agree , but I just can't manage to snort my preferred ethanol based beverage up my nose and down the back of my throat. 

 

So I'll just take a sip , maybe even one handed tonight.


388 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2513040 26-Jun-2020 16:30
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From todays press release at:

 

https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/1-new-case-covid-19-3

 

 

 

"We have had 142 people who will not be tested because of reasons such as being a child, being part off repositioning crew, currently being overseas or they are refusing a test. 71 people have refused testing."

 

Words fail me.


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  #2513042 26-Jun-2020 16:32
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cshwone:

 

From todays press release at:

 

https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/1-new-case-covid-19-3

 

 

 

"We have had 142 people who will not be tested because of reasons such as being a child, being part off repositioning crew, currently being overseas or they are refusing a test. 71 people have refused testing."

 

Words fail me.

 

 

 

 

What reason would people have to refuse? I guess they could put them back into quarantine for up to 14 days, but that costs the taxpayer, and space seems limited in some areas.




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  #2513050 26-Jun-2020 16:41
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mattwnz:

cshwone:


From todays press release at:


https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/1-new-case-covid-19-3


 


"We have had 142 people who will not be tested because of reasons such as being a child, being part off repositioning crew, currently being overseas or they are refusing a test. 71 people have refused testing."


Words fail me.



 


What reason would people have to refuse? I guess they could put them back into quarantine for up to 14 days, but that costs the taxpayer, and space seems limited in some areas.



Free holiday in luxury 5 star hotel. Why not.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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