2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2514686 29-Jun-2020 18:03

mattwnz:

LOL... Reminds me of a little kid in the back of the car saying 'are we there yet' ....'why aren't we there yet'...

He doesn't know how they will do it. Well until he does, wouldn't it be better to just listen to the experts and stop complaining? Doesn't he realise that the virus is raging outside the border? There is no way to prove someone is COVID free from overseas, without quarantining.

Potentially our borders are already open for many people to come back, it just requires people to quarantine, which is just people sacrificing a bit of time, which they could use to upskill.

100%

You could look everywhere globally, but just one easy sample, Victoria, Australia. Doesn't need to be New Zealand. There is no easy out, no matter how easy words are.

Batman

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#2514692 29-Jun-2020 18:08

mattwnz:

WHO have already said that there is no evidence of any long term immunity to the virus if you get it, and whether herd immunity will even work, or people could just keep catching it annually like a cold.

list of things WHO said (just off the top of my head)

1. there is no human to human transmission

2. there is no need for border/travel control

3. there is no need to worry about transmission between asymptomatic people

4. there is no need to wear masks

5. Taiwan is sending bad messages to the Sec Gen

6. probably a few more out there ...

tdgeek

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#2514693 29-Jun-2020 18:09

Scott3:

The headline is a misquote of the leader of the opposition. His actual quote specifically mentions "long term".

I don't think anybody thinks the borders will be closed long term. We should be able to re-open quickly if one of the following happens:

An effective test for pre-symptomatic carriers comes onto the market.
A highly effective vaccine (if short lasting) is released, so we are confident those vaccinated say 3-10 weeks ago are not carriers.
A reasonably effective treatment is found
A somewhat effective vaccine is released, and distributed to our local population.
Top two will allow us to screen people in transit, avoiding isolation.

Last two massively reduce the consequences of letting covid-19 loose in our population

All four are total unknowns. They wont happen in weeks. He stated that the border will be closed 12 to 18 months, Im not aware of anyone stating that so he can reliably comment on it. So it boils down to making things up. A bit like the homeless man. Taxpayers spent a lot of time and money investigating 1700 people over the homeless man, there is no homeless man. Desperate if you ask me.

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#2514697 29-Jun-2020 18:20

Batman:

mattwnz:

WHO have already said that there is no evidence of any long term immunity to the virus if you get it, and whether herd immunity will even work, or people could just keep catching it annually like a cold.

list of things WHO said (just off the top of my head)

1. there is no human to human transmission

2. there is no need for border/travel control

3. there is no need to worry about transmission between asymptomatic people

4. there is no need to wear masks

5. Taiwan is sending bad messages to the Sec Gen

6. probably a few more out there ...

WHO has a Political and Scientific side to its organization. Political guys make the big announcements etc , so you get this.

They actually have very good science , but you would not know it from the political statements.

So maybe you get a Dilbert like conversation .....

Science Guy : This new virus looks like variant of SARS so we should watch out for human to human transmission and take similar pre-cautions.

Political Guy : Ok I'll say we have no evidence of Human to Human transmission .

Science Guy: Stare...

Political Guy: Don't you have some scienceing to do. I'm late for my press conference.

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#2514712 29-Jun-2020 18:48

ezbee:

WHO has a Political and Scientific side to its organization. Political guys make the big announcements etc , so you get this.

They actually have very good science , but you would not know it from the political statements.

So maybe you get a Dilbert like conversation .....

Science Guy : This new virus looks like variant of SARS so we should watch out for human to human transmission and take similar pre-cautions.

Political Guy : Ok I'll say we have no evidence of Human to Human transmission .

Science Guy: Stare...

Political Guy: Don't you have some scienceing to do. I'm late for my press conference.

unfortunately the WHO is responsible for half the problems of our pandemic. the countries who did their own thing at the start instead of following the WHO were the only countries who had low infections - the rest - well you can see worldmeter. the science guy is better off starting a youtube channel. will achieve a lot more good.

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#2514726 29-Jun-2020 19:05

i have to say I haven't watched this but hopefully it's not misleading

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#2514746 29-Jun-2020 20:53

mattwnz:
Geektastic:

I had an email from Emirates.

To fly there now, you must prove that either you have the money to cover your quarantine costs or insurance that will do so.

This seems very sensible. It should be user pays and people had plenty of time to come back prior to now.

There perhaps could be exceptions in certain cases where it was previously impossible to come back.

But people who are flying out still, for business or holiday, and then coming back, should be paying, especially as the travel advice is to not travel overseas.

Saying that people have had lots of time to get back is delusional. How were you expecting them to get back? By canoe?

There are thousands of New Zealanders who have been trying to get back for months and have had flight after flight cancelled. The reality of travel at the moment is lost on you.

Wise

Send money globally for less with Wise - one free transfer up to NZ$900 (affiliate link).

mattwnz

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#2514749 29-Jun-2020 21:03

Handle9:
Saying that people have had lots of time to get back is delusional. How were you expecting them to get back? By canoe?

There are thousands of New Zealanders who have been trying to get back for months and have had flight after flight cancelled. The reality of travel at the moment is lost on you.

Read the second paragraph regarding exceptions for people who weren't able to return earlier.

People can now travel out of NZ to potentially high risk countries, and risking bring the virus back into NZ when they return. Why should tax payers have to pay their quarantine costs when they return, when they are fully aware of the situation before they left?

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#2514751 29-Jun-2020 21:13

mattwnz:
Handle9:
Saying that people have had lots of time to get back is delusional. How were you expecting them to get back? By canoe?

There are thousands of New Zealanders who have been trying to get back for months and have had flight after flight cancelled. The reality of travel at the moment is lost on you.

Read the second paragraph regarding exceptions for people who weren't able to return earlier

. People can now travel out of NZ to potentially high risk countries, why should tax payers have to pay their quarantine costs when they return, when they eye fully aware of the situation before they left.

If New Zealand doesn't want citizens to travel then they should prevent them from travelling, just as Australia has.

The consistent bashing of New Zealanders trying to return home, many in very difficult circumstances, is unsurprising but also a reflection on the country. It's become increasingly xenophobic and insular.

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#2514753 29-Jun-2020 21:30

Mortality levels approaching normal in Europe

https://www.euromomo.eu/

mattwnz

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#2514755 29-Jun-2020 21:38

Handle9:

If New Zealand doesn't want citizens to travel then they should prevent them from travelling, just as Australia has.

The consistent bashing of New Zealanders trying to return home, many in very difficult circumstances, is unsurprising but also a reflection on the country. It's become increasingly xenophobic and insular.

Can we stop someone from traveling out of NZ? Doesn't that impinge on their rights? The NZ government is advising people not to , but I don't think they can stop them

I don't see how paying for quarantine has any relation to any form of xenophobia, it is simply user pays. WP has suggested doing it via a loan scheme, so everyone will be able to afford it. Australia is going to charge for quarantine. Our politicians are wanting to do a part charge.

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#2514756 29-Jun-2020 21:39

Further interesting stats/plots, especially the per age group and per country data. Some European countries have not any excess mortality. And interesting to see some (albeit small) excess deaths in the 15 - 45 age group (undoubtedly from the worst affected countries where health systems were overwhelmed).

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

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#2514760 29-Jun-2020 22:12

Update on Government Trans Tasman bubble thoughts. https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/121981023/coronavirus-time-for-australia-to-make-calls-on-transtasman-bubble-pm-says

Opening up at state level would make sense given the last local cases in QLD were >4 weeks ago, WA and Tasmania >6 weeks ago, SA > 9 weeks ago, and NT > 11 weeks ago vs >5 weeks for NZ. All those states have closed borders (except SA now open to NT, Tas, QLD & WA). Of course, subject to those states maintaining their state borders closed to NSW & Victoria. Not certain the Federal Govt would wear states opening to NZ but not to NSW and Victoria, though.

ACT >10 weeks since last local case but their border is open to NSW. NSW has had low level recent community transmission (6 - 7 cases reported in the last ~7 weeks, with the last one only 3 days ago). They appear to be in a position to close that off but the main problem is that the border with Victoria is open. That appears to be seen as very difficult to close given 50 odd road crossings and several border towns (people live on one side and work or go to school on the other, etc)

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#2514844 29-Jun-2020 23:08

No, because some places having cases have open boarders with places that have been case free for weeks.

That's still a big hole for it to come through, my thoughts. NSW low level, it only takes a few cases for exponential growth.

Handle9

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#2514845 29-Jun-2020 23:13

mattwnz:

Handle9:

If New Zealand doesn't want citizens to travel then they should prevent them from travelling, just as Australia has.

The consistent bashing of New Zealanders trying to return home, many in very difficult circumstances, is unsurprising but also a reflection on the country. It's become increasingly xenophobic and insular.

Can we stop someone from traveling out of NZ? Doesn't that impinge on their rights? The NZ government is advising people not to , but I don't think they can stop them

I don't see how paying for quarantine has any relation to any form of xenophobia, it is simply user pays. WP has suggested doing it via a loan scheme, so everyone will be able to afford it. Australia is going to charge for quarantine. Our politicians are wanting to do a part charge.

The government can do what it likes - it's the government. It can change whatever laws it wants to change.

Have all the other COVID measures been introduced with a user pays? If you took the wage subsidy do you have to pay it back? What about healthcare? Unemployment benefits? Do exporters have to pay back the subsidies on airfreight?

Of course if you are unworthy (like an migrant worker or someone who was on a benefit prior to COVID) you get a lower level of support. It's not possible for the unworthy to be supported - it's a team of 5 million, less a few hundred thousand.

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