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  #2516420 2-Jul-2020 19:53
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mattwnz: My understanding is people can be sick withe the virus for weeks, even up to 6 weeks.


Not quite right. The test is for matching RNA fragments, not live viruses. Someone could perhaps harbour dead virus fragments for weeks.

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  #2516433 2-Jul-2020 20:08
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ezbee:

  Saving lives does not really resonate , or have a value with this sort.



Putting a dollar value on a human life is pretty standard in risk analysis and safety management. I believe the figure in NZ at the moment is $3M.

So it's worth spending $240B to avoid 80,000 deaths.

 
 
 
 


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  #2516473 2-Jul-2020 20:10
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Market Watch: Trump says a face mask makes him look like the Lone Ranger. One problem with that...

...Last month told the Wall Street Journal that some people wear masks just to show their disapproval of him, adding that masks are ineffective because people fidget with them too much.

Trump has reportedly refused to be seen wearing a face mask in public, saying he’s tested regularly enough to negate the need for a mask.

But Trump said Wednesday he has nothing against mask-wearing, though he said there is no need for a national mandate despite a sharp rise in coronavirus cases.

“Actually, I had a mask on. I sort of liked the way I looked, OK? I thought it was OK,” Trump told Fox Business. “It was a dark, black mask, and I thought it looked OK. Looked like the Lone Ranger. But, no, I have no problem with that. I think — and if people feel good about it, they should do it.”

If you “looked like the Lone Ranger,” you had it on wrong,’ one Twitter user notes


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  #2516486 2-Jul-2020 20:37
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Definitely no xenophobia. Nothing to see here.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12345104


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  #2516489 2-Jul-2020 20:40
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

Ok, so its based on worst case scenario and months ago. Arguably, NZ is in the best possible situation it could be now.We are free to spend in the economy, exports and imports are happening anyway. We are blessed right now. Ive seen quite a few positive articles from economists about GDP, 2021, etc. Reluctant to post too much of that here as its generally negative here. IMHO we have avoided the worst case scenarios, and we can hope to achieve the better case scenarios. But when employment drops by less than expected, it will still be be bashed as NZ falling is falling apart.

 

We have avoided the bullet, we are battling on well. The next GDP figure will be down, way down, but thats known, the following 2 quarters will be a lot better. Not great but closer to holding our own. If so, the costs the Govt will spend to manage will be lower. 

 

 

 

 

That particular article was based on the worst case. But when he was on TV, think it was one of the Sunday programs, he did quote over 100 billion for  going into  level 4 then 3 lockdowns, which should have followed a better case scenario, on the road to emliination. ONce it was all over I recall he said costs would like exceed 100billion.  We still don't really know how it will pan out, and if our quarantining fails, whether we may end up going back up levels, which will have direct economic effects.

 

It does however appear things have bounced back a lot. House prices seem to have bounced back, and apparently builders and tradies have never been so busy. Infact try getting good tradie to do a job at the moment isn't easy. It would likely be a different story if we had followed Victoria.


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  #2516519 2-Jul-2020 22:29
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frankv:
Fred99:

 

VicRoads has moved to stop a significant surge in licence amendments as people rushed to change their addresses in the hopes of getting through police checkpoints.

 



It's a bit presumptive to assume that all the address changes are fraudulent. No doubt people who once lived in the lockdown zones but never officially changed their addresses decided that now would be a great time to put that right. And, if you read the article, VicRoads didn't "move to stop"... rather, they moved to validate address changes.

 

You've attributed the quote to me, when it was quoted text from the article.  Anyway I highlighted above words which seem reasonably clear why they aren't presuming all amendment requests were fraudulent.  Even if only one was - it still sucks.


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  #2516547 3-Jul-2020 07:11
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mattwnz:

 

That particular article was based on the worst case. But when he was on TV, think it was one of the Sunday programs, he did quote over 100 billion for  going into  level 4 then 3 lockdowns, which should have followed a better case scenario, on the road to emliination. ONce it was all over I recall he said costs would like exceed 100billion.  We still don't really know how it will pan out, and if our quarantining fails, whether we may end up going back up levels, which will have direct economic effects.

 

It does however appear things have bounced back a lot. House prices seem to have bounced back, and apparently builders and tradies have never been so busy. Infact try getting good tradie to do a job at the moment isn't easy. It would likely be a different story if we had followed Victoria.

 

 

Yeah, Im quite positive. Positive that this isnt going to drag us into a heap. What we have done to date has worked, I consider the border to be very solid now, but there is always a risk. If one sneaks out I have no doubt it will be ring fenced. Cameron Bagrie said the other day that we will need to either/and tax more, spend less. That conflicts with buying votes at elections, interesting to see how that plays out. If you analogise this to one household, that household needs to watch its money and work hard


 
 
 
 


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  #2516616 3-Jul-2020 09:27
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Fred99:

 

frankv: [quoted] Fred99:

 

VicRoads has moved to stop a significant surge in licence amendments as people rushed to change their addresses in the hopes of getting through police checkpoints.

 

[/quoted]
It's a bit presumptive to assume that all the address changes are fraudulent. No doubt people who once lived in the lockdown zones but never officially changed their addresses decided that now would be a great time to put that right. And, if you read the article, VicRoads didn't "move to stop"... rather, they moved to validate address changes.

 

You've attributed the quote to me, when it was quoted text from the article.  Anyway I highlighted above words which seem reasonably clear why they aren't presuming all amendment requests were fraudulent.  Even if only one was - it still sucks.

 



 

Yes, my apologies about the misquoting.

 

But it seemed to me that the tenor of the article, and the inference taken by others who replied, was that *all* address changes were fraudulent for the purposes of evading lockdown restrictions. Indeed, the claim that VicRoads was *stopping* the license amendments implies that they are all fraudulent (Why would they stop processing legitimate and accurate address changes?). I think that, as I pointed out, there would also be a significant surge in legitimate license address changes away from those areas.

 

I do agree... even one fraudulent change does suck.

 

 


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  #2516624 3-Jul-2020 09:36
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mattwnz:

 

But when he was on TV, think it was one of the Sunday programs, he did quote over 100 billion for  going into  level 4 then 3 lockdowns, which should have followed a better case scenario, on the road to emliination. ONce it was all over I recall he said costs would like exceed 100billion.

 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/110753822/is-a-life-worth-47-million says a human life is worth $4.7M to NZ. So avoiding 80,000 deaths (economic value = $376B) for only $100B is a real bargain.

 

 


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  #2516642 3-Jul-2020 10:00
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Handle9:

 

Definitely no xenophobia. Nothing to see here.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12345104

 

 

 

 

I think he meant that they were coming from places with a lot of Covid, not especially well managed or with believable statistics. Not that he was objecting to them because of their race or whatever. That was my interpretation anyway.






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  #2516659 3-Jul-2020 10:34
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Geektastic:

 

Handle9:

 

Definitely no xenophobia. Nothing to see here.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12345104

 

 

 

 

I think he meant that they were coming from places with a lot of Covid, not especially well managed or with believable statistics. Not that he was objecting to them because of their race or whatever. That was my interpretation anyway.

 

 

He didn't complain about the USA and the UK, which are, in your words "places with a lot of Covid, not especially well managed or with believable statistics. "





 

 

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  #2516671 3-Jul-2020 10:50
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frankv:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/110753822/is-a-life-worth-47-million says a human life is worth $4.7M to NZ. So avoiding 80,000 deaths (economic value = $376B) for only $100B is a real bargain.

 

 

Just meaningless numbers. Could literally stick any $ value in there.
It doesnt actually mean anything.

If lives were ACTUALLY worth that to NZ, NZ would be willing to spend that on saving each life .
NZ doesnt and wont spend that on saving lives ( a few exceptions ).
Look at all those organing ~Cake sales~ (givealittle etc) to try and get the $ to buy life saving drugs , or pay for operations

 

NZ'ers die on waiting lists, so that quoted value of life is meaningless dribble .

 

 


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  #2516672 3-Jul-2020 10:50
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We still seem to have troubling management of our Hotels 
People treating them as a normal hotel stay and not showing caution for their own protection ,
or responsibility for others along with having the system on. Hotel staff used to providing service are in a bind when it comes to being rule enforcers.

 

Audio of interview with concerned returnee.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018753284/managed-isolation-hotels-too-posh-for-returnee

 

Australia is in real trouble because of Hotels..

 

Why a Woolworths worker who tested positive for coronavirus in Melbourne was allowed to return to NSW
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-03/positive-coronavirus-case-flew-from-nsw-to-vic-heres-why/12417186

 

Breaches of hotel quarantine 'let Victorians down', Minister says as inquiry launched
It comes as two men who both spent a fortnight in hotel quarantine in Melbourne tested positive after returning home to New South Wales and the Northern Territory.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-02/victoria-hotel-quarantine-breaches-inquiry-launched/12414612

 

Edit for half pasted sentence .


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  #2516674 3-Jul-2020 10:54
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In line with idiots not co-operating.

 

A county in the US had to issue subpoenas (and threaten $2000 a day fines) to get people to admit that were at a party where the host tested positive for Covid.

 

It was a gathering against local rules, but despite being named by other guests they denied attending.

 

They have now been tested. 


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  #2516676 3-Jul-2020 10:58
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1101:

 

frankv:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/110753822/is-a-life-worth-47-million says a human life is worth $4.7M to NZ. So avoiding 80,000 deaths (economic value = $376B) for only $100B is a real bargain.

 

 

Just meaningless numbers. Could literally stick any $ value in there.
It doesnt actually mean anything.

If lives were ACTUALLY worth that to NZ, NZ would be willing to spend that on saving each life .
NZ doesnt and wont spend that on saving lives ( a few exceptions ).
Look at all those organing ~Cake sales~ (givealittle etc) to try and get the $ to buy life saving drugs , or pay for operations

 

NZ'ers die on waiting lists, so that quoted value of life is meaningless dribble .

 

 

 

 

No its not. A US mathematician derived the value, he was interviewed on NZ news not long ago on TV, how it relates to NZ. Many many factors involved, but simplistically, a human is worth money to the economy, by way of contributing to the workforce that produces production, i.e. GDP and spends money in the economy. So, a life does have an economic value. Its not a value based on love and goodness, its based on a nation's financials


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