2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2521546 12-Jul-2020 19:32

gzt:
FineWine: So what is the legal definition of a License Security officer (layman's terms) and what are their legal powers in this situation. e.g. stop and detain to prevent absconsion - how can they physically detain and for how long.

IANAL. Practically zero in this scenario imo. Security guards are not prison guards and hotels are not prisons. You're better off investing in some time to educate the guests on what is expected and the consequences of non-compliance under the health act or whatever it is.

Umm are you serious? :-) They get told, they know. "Its not really a crime"..... Sooner they get the into court and jail for 30 days the better, that seems to be possibly happening. It needs not to be "maybe $4000 fine or prison" it needs to be "by default its prison" So no need too ponder the odds, its 14 days quarantine and 30 days

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gzt

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#2521590 12-Jul-2020 21:03

$4000 max fine, Six months max in prison. Approx 30,000 people have been through this quarantine process. There have been very few issues overall. A few people have not fully complied, and an additional few people have taken pains to 'escape' in one case breaking a window. Where possible processes have been strengthened as a result. I think some people are way too focused on minor issues with this policy and it's implementation instead of looking at the bigger picture.

kingdragonfly

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#2521591 12-Jul-2020 21:07

'I feel as if he was robbed': American family angry over father's COVID-19 death

"Arizona Republic" news piece by Emily Wilder

...grief at her father’s death and inadequate farewell, as well as her anger at what she believes were policy failures that directly caused his unnecessary death, compelled Kristin Urquiza to invite Arizona state Governor Doug Ducey to the funeral.

She had wanted to show Republican party Governor Ducey that the more than 2,000 Arizonans who have lost their lives to the new coronavirus are not just numbers.

“They are people like my dad who have entire families and communities behind them that are mourning,” she said.

“I feel as if he was robbed,” she said, and that he was not the only one.

..."Dad’s death was completely unnecessary and wouldn’t have happened had we acted quickly and swiftly in a way that prioritized public health,” his daughter said.

She also said she is "enraged" by the disproportionate effects the pandemic is having on communities of color around the country.

Tolleson is majority Hispanic and working class, as is Maryvale. Urquiza's father was an immigrant from Durango, Mexico, and his mother was a first-generation Mexican American.

Recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data shows that hospitalization rates for Black and brown people are as much as five times higher than for white people. They are also more likely to die from the new coronavirus than white people.

Meanwhile, Maryvale has seen some of the worst infection rates but least opportunities for COVID-19 testing in the city.

She said this is why she extended an invitation to the funeral to Gov. Ducey, whose office had received the letter, according to the Fedex tracking website, but did not respond. She wanted him to witness firsthand what she believed was the result of his lack of leadership.

"I believe that our elected officials have the power and the responsibility to keep their constituents safe,” she said. "I think that Ducey’s got blood on his hands.”

..."I will not allow him to be just another number, another death," she said. "I am calling on people across the state as well as people across the country to come forward with your story to put faces and names to the lives that we have lost so that not only Gov. Ducey but the Trump administration takes this crisis as a crisis so that there are no more deaths."

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2020/07/10/maryvale-family-blames-gov-ducey-fathers-death-covid-19/5395440002/

kingdragonfly

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#2521593 12-Jul-2020 21:19

Washington Post opinion: Our pandemic response is stalling. And it’s made worse by Trump’s ignorance.

The pandemic response in the United States is stalling. Left to a patchwork of 50 states, absent a national strategy, buffeted by multiple outbreaks from premature openings, and now facing critical decisions about risks of reopening schools, the nation is headed in the wrong direction. Keys to slowing the pandemic — diagnostic testing, contact tracing, personal protective equipment, wearing face masks — are all faltering. President Trump has his head in the sand.

A critical pillar of containing the pandemic is diagnostic testing. An average of 634,000 people a day were tested over the past week, but that is way below the nationwide target of 1.6 million daily tests needed for mitigation of the virus, and far below what would be necessary to suppress it

..Just as important is the percentage of positive tests, rising in many states, because of both more illness and limited testing. The Harvard group says the target should be 3 percent or less. A seven-day moving average in the United States is now 8.4 percent and rising, and in some states, it is alarmingly high: Arizona at 27 percent

...A second pillar is contact tracing to find those who are sick and isolate them from the public. It must be done quickly after cases are detected, but the spikes and test delays are playing havoc. Peter Hotez, dean of tropical medicine at Baylor College of Medicine, told CNN that in the South and Southwest, “The cases are rising so rapidly that we cannot even do contact tracing anymore. I don’t see how it’s possible to even do that.”

Face masks, a simple measure that can help control the spread of viral transmission, are still not mandated everywhere that social distancing is not possible. Supplies of personal protective equipment — masks, gowns and gloves — are running short again.

On top of all this, Mr. Trump has taken the nation into a dangerous minefield of reckless openings, urging governors to relax restrictions too early, and triggering a level of daily new cases that is three times larger than it was a month ago.

...The nation’s dire situation is made worse by Mr. Trump’s ignorance and denial. He’s still claiming incorrectly that soaring case counts are due to more testing. He falsely and callously says “99 percent” of cases “are totally harmless.” The president is disconnected from reality. Witness the jammed hospital intensive care units from Florida to California. Despite heroic efforts by health-care workers, the pandemic is out of control in most of the United States, many states are overwhelmed and struggling, and the death toll stands at 132,000 people.

That is not “harmless.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/our-pandemic-response-is-stalling-and-its-made-worse-by-trumps-ignorance/2020/07/10/7f81fc20-c2d8-11ea-b178-bb7b05b94af1_story.html

rugrat

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#2521594 12-Jul-2020 21:49

gzt: $4000 max fine, Six months max in prison. Approx 30,000 people have been through this quarantine process. There have been very few issues overall. A few people have not fully complied, and an additional few people have taken pains to 'escape' in one case breaking a window. Where possible processes have been strengthened as a result. I think some people are way too focused on minor issues with this policy and it's implementation instead of looking at the bigger picture.

The bigger picture being if one of these idiots infects one person undetected, look at the consequences for the country. Even though it’s only a very small percent people that misbehave, it only takes one.
We cannot afford any leaks of even one person. So I would not call it minor issues.

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#2521608 12-Jul-2020 23:12

rugrat:

We cannot afford any leaks of even one person. So I would not call it minor issues.

It's not absolute, it's and odd's game.

We are just trying to stack the odd's in our favor enough that somebody bringing covid-19 into NZ, and then passing it on in a way that can't be shutdown by contract tracing is low.

If it was absolute, we wouldn't be allowing any exemptions from the isolation period (NZ based air crew, diplomats, people transferring to ships), and we would be taking extreme measures to avoid transmission to those in contact with international arrivals (airport workers, bus drivers, hotel staff).

Frankly I think we should be stacking the odds a bit more in our favor.

mattwnz

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#2521610 12-Jul-2020 23:47

Scott3:

rugrat:

We cannot afford any leaks of even one person. So I would not call it minor issues.

It's not absolute, it's and odd's game.

We are just trying to stack the odd's in our favor enough that somebody bringing covid-19 into NZ, and then passing it on in a way that can't be shutdown by contract tracing is low.

If it was absolute, we wouldn't be allowing any exemptions from the isolation period (NZ based air crew, diplomats, people transferring to ships), and we would be taking extreme measures to avoid transmission to those in contact with international arrivals (airport workers, bus drivers, hotel staff).

Frankly I think we should be stacking the odds a bit more in our favor.

Each time things are toughened up at these isolation hotels, it does help to stack things in our favour each time. But IMO these holes shouldn't keep getting found. IMO it is common sense that we needed police at the hotels, if noone else is physically able to apprehend someone who escapes. Didn't they think some people would try to escape? They were even increasing fence security at the time anther person escaped who actually had the virus, and could have infected the community.

IMO we don't even want it in the community at all, because contact tracing is effectively the very last resort of finding and containing it,when it does get into the community. Lst time before the lockdown, our contact tracing had problems We have to remember that this virus has up to a 14 day incubation period, during which time people (eg including super spreaders) can infect a lot of people, and any tracing is up to 14 days behind.

We are still not doing enough testing. The 7 day average is only around 2000, including those people returning who have to be tested. This is not up to the ministers own requirements of at least 4000 tests a day. We are not going to find cases in the community if we are not doing much testing in the community. I am surprised opposition parties haven't got onto this.

Oblivian

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#2521611 12-Jul-2020 23:49

Batman:

so let me get this straight - as of last week we are kicking out non residents and sending them home?!

It would appear, if you had a visa due to expire Apr2-Jul9 during lockdown. You got an extension to Sept to let you sort affairs and get home.

But if it expires after Jul9 and you don't have a renewed employer assisted working - it's not getting an extension. So out the door you go (including spouses and children if fail to apply for new one)

Visas for partners and dependent children will not be extended

If you have supported a partner or dependent child and they have a visa based on their relationship with you, their visa expiry date will not be extended. They will need to apply for a new visa.

Appears to be surrounding job security/priority. And trimming down to essential work categories.

These changes will provide migrants with more certainty about their work situation in the short term. They will also allow employers to keep work visa holders they already employ without taking away opportunities from New Zealanders.

An employer-assisted temporary work visa includes:

Essential Skills
Work to Residence
Special and Skilled work visas for China, Indonesia, South Korea, Philippines and Vietnam
Special category work visas for Japanese Interpreters and Thai Chefs
Work visas granted under section 61 of the Immigration Act 2009 that specify an employer

tdgeek

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#2521622 13-Jul-2020 07:09

mattwnz:

Each time things are toughened up at these isolation hotels, it does help to stack things in our favour each time. But IMO these holes shouldn't keep getting found. IMO it is common sense that we needed police at the hotels, if noone else is physically able to apprehend someone who escapes. Didn't they think some people would try to escape? They were even increasing fence security at the time anther person escaped who actually had the virus, and could have infected the community.

According to an article I read the other day there is one Police officer at each hotel. While that means there is a capability to arrest and detain, he/she cant be everywhere

tdgeek

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#2521623 13-Jul-2020 07:16

mattwnz:

We are still not doing enough testing. The 7 day average is only around 2000, including those people returning who have to be tested. This is not up to the ministers own requirements of at least 4000 tests a day. We are not going to find cases in the community if we are not doing much testing in the community. I am surprised opposition parties haven't got onto this.

Who do we test? We are testing the passengers, doctors referrals, and sentinel tests. The one that tested positive on day 6 the other day must have passed day 3, so it doesnt seem to make sense to test random people who feel well. If it was out there with just one person, say a month ago, it would be now in a lot of places as there is no lockdown at all. And sticking out like a sore thumb. Are we still at level 1? No idea, in practice its level 0, so plenty of oportunity to becoem obvious that we have CT. We dont. The border is our only loophole, and as MP Hipkins said they are hotels not prisons so we accept the risk

Batman

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#2521630 13-Jul-2020 07:41

Oblivian:

It would appear, if you had a visa due to expire Apr2-Jul9 during lockdown. You got an extension to Sept to let you sort affairs and get home.

But if it expires after Jul9 and you don't have a renewed employer assisted working - it's not getting an extension. So out the door you go (including spouses and children if fail to apply for new one)

Visas for partners and dependent children will not be extended

If you have supported a partner or dependent child and they have a visa based on their relationship with you, their visa expiry date will not be extended. They will need to apply for a new visa.

Appears to be surrounding job security/priority. And trimming down to essential work categories.

These changes will provide migrants with more certainty about their work situation in the short term. They will also allow employers to keep work visa holders they already employ without taking away opportunities from New Zealanders.

An employer-assisted temporary work visa includes:

Essential Skills
Work to Residence
Special and Skilled work visas for China, Indonesia, South Korea, Philippines and Vietnam
Special category work visas for Japanese Interpreters and Thai Chefs
Work visas granted under section 61 of the Immigration Act 2009 that specify an employer

so we are kicking them out (for the lack of more appropriate words), to give employment to residents.

tdgeek

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#2521632 13-Jul-2020 07:48

Batman:

so we are kicking them out (for the lack of more appropriate words), to give employment to residents.

Dont think so. We are not importing unemployed migrants. The employed migrants can apply for a visa. Would you prefer that we contacted every other Government and offered to take in all their unemployed?

blackjack17

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#2521634 13-Jul-2020 07:57

gzt: $4000 max fine, Six months max in prison. Approx 30,000 people have been through this quarantine process. There have been very few issues overall. A few people have not fully complied, and an additional few people have taken pains to 'escape' in one case breaking a window. Where possible processes have been strengthened as a result. I think some people are way too focused on minor issues with this policy and it's implementation instead of looking at the bigger picture.

Those that aren't abiding buy the quarantine rules really need to be made an example of. For those that only have NZ citizenship there is not much we can do other than 6months in jail. The $4000 fine is a joke.

For those with dual citizenship, strip their NZ citizenship and deport.

]https://www.govt.nz/browse/passports-citizenship-and-identity/nz-citizenship/changing-your-citizenship-status/being-stripped-of-nz-citizenship/

The Minister can take away your citizenship if:

you got citizenship of another country, and
you voluntarily acted against the interests of New Zealand.

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Dingbatt

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#2521636 13-Jul-2020 08:20

This thread is starting to outlive its usefulness (edit: for me). In the early days of the pandemic it was a great place to find an aggregation of virus news. Now it’s just the same posters making the same points over and over for page after page, and for one to keep posting political spam masquerading under a Covid headline on almost every page.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Oblivian

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#2521645 13-Jul-2020 08:47

~110%? ish increase again for Victoria - 279

The ~14 day flow on effect is going to start driving peoples anxiety through the roof to see if it makes a change.

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