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3274 posts

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  #2524201 16-Jul-2020 15:52
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mattwnz:

 

Rikkitic:

 

The Republican governor of Mississippi, of all people, explains convincingly why 'herd immunity' is a pipe dream. Well worth reading.

 

 

 

 

If you watch Toms Hanks interview on Stephen Colbert, he had the virus, and his antibodies to the virus have gradually dropped over time. So it doesn't appear people have long term immunity. It will be interesting in the coming months how many people do get reinfected with it. His experience with the virus didn't sound too pleasant either.

 

 

read this article about why the t cells might show more about immunity to the virus

 

https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-immunity-may-rely-on-a-microscopic-helper-t-cells/





Common sense is not as common as you think.


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Ultimate Geek


  #2524220 16-Jul-2020 16:25
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Vexxxboy
https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-immunity-may-rely-on-a-microscopic-helper-t-cells/

 

Thats a great article.
Quite the best i have seen , worth a read , rather than a scan.

 

Key paragraph for me.

 

""
But antibody levels are only part of the immunity story. 
While antibodies may wane past the limit of detection, that doesn’t mean they go away entirely. 
And even a very low level could be protective. “What‘s important when you’ve been exposed to the virus is how quickly you can ramp up those antibodies,” Permar says. 
That involves a whole army of cells, which store knowledge of each new pathogen they encounter. 
There are B cells, which help coax those virus-specific antibodies into existence, plus killer T cells, which can learn to obliterate infected cells. 
Helper T cells help orchestrate the whole process. “You have multiple arms of the immune response,” says Donna Farber, an immunologist at Columbia University who studies respiratory viruses. “It’s like the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force.” If one branch stands down, the body hasn’t necessarily lost its germ-fighting capacity.
""


 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek


  #2524234 16-Jul-2020 17:14
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There’s ample blame to go around in US teen’s COVID-19 death

Statesman: Leonard Pitts Jr. is a columnist for The Miami Herald.

A few words on the death of US Florida resident Carsyn Leigh Davis.

It has become predictable that the political right always knows whom to blame for disaster. After the 2018 massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, Donald Trump blamed video games. After the 2010 earthquake in Haiti, Pat Robertson blamed a pact with the devil. After the 2001 terrorist attacks, the late Jerry Falwell Sr. blamed abortion, feminists and the ACLU.

But if any prominent conservative has assigned blame for Carsyn’s death, it has escaped notice. Which is unfortunate. Because while the lines of causality they’ve drawn in previous tragedies have seemed fanciful at best, the lines leading to this one are clear and easily read.

Carsyn was a teenager from Fort Myers, Florida, who had battled health issues all her life, including cancer and a rare autoimmune disorder. Then she contracted COVID-19. This, after an event at her church.

“Service is back and better than ever!” crowed the church on social media. They billed it as a “release party.”...

...A hundred kids, unmasked, attended the June 10 party. Afterward, says Jones, Carole, “who is not a doctor,” gave Carsyn a precautionary dose of azithromycin, “an anti-bacterial drug with no known benefits for fighting COVID-19.”

But Carsyn got sick: headaches, sinus pressure, a cough. Carole put her on her grandfather’s oxygen machine. And she gave her hydroxychloroquine, the drug Trump touted as a possible cure, but that actual doctors say is dangerous.

Finally, Carole took her daughter to the hospital. By then, Carsyn couldn’t breathe, but for several days, Carole refused to allow a breathing tube to be inserted. Carsyn died on June 23rd -- two days after her 17th birthday.

And if no one else wants to assign blame, yours truly is not reticent.

Blame the church. You don’t hold a party in a pandemic.

Blame the parents. They failed their daughter.

But you must also blame the forces of conspiracy and confusion that invite people to ignore medical science and common sense.

Blame Tucker Carlson, Rush Limbaugh and every other loudmouth peddling alternatives to reality and forgeries of fact.

Blame Donald Trump, Roger Stone and every other political hack who thrives on the gullibility of the ill-informed.

Blame social media for allowing dangerous propaganda to be spread anonymously and globally with no accountability.

And blame traditional news media. We heirs of Murrow, Cronkite, Woodward and Bernstein, of those who famously and bravely told it like it was, are so enthralled by false equivalence in the name of a spurious “objectivity” that we require policy memos and special dispensation to call the obvious lie an obvious lie. We’ve too often been faint-hearted and mealy-mouthed in standing up for the principle that truth matters.

By such actions and inactions, America manufactures ignorance on an industrial scale. And not without cost. This did not have to happen, yet it did. Carsyn Leigh Davis is dead.

And there is plenty of blame to go around.

https://www.statesman.com/opinion/20200712/pitts-theres-ample-blame-to-go-around-in-teens-covid-19-death


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  #2524243 16-Jul-2020 17:46
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mattwnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Yep, we are restricting the numbers, and the MIQ are as watertight as they can be, as they say, they are hotels not prisons. Well over 30,000 through them, no damage yet

 

 

 

 

I understand the minister said that they are not 'Maximum Security Prisons', which is quite a big difference.  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122094498/coronavirus-two-new-cases-in-isolation-minister-says-facilities-not-maximum-security-prisons  . They are quarantine containment areas, which are designed to keep people in, which works somewhat like a prison, even if people don't like the word prison. eg people aren't allowed to leave it until their 14 days is up or they are free of the virus. 

 

We were told they were watertight before all the recent additional improvements which were done, such as new fencing, police onsite etc . So we have to keep improving them , and also learn based from Australias holes. We won't ever know if there have been leaks until 1-2 weeks down the track, because it silently spreads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris Hipkins said "there are hotels not prisons" Way over 30,000 and 4 notable issues. One person cut his way out, how do you stop that?


4687 posts

Uber Geek


  #2524256 16-Jul-2020 18:01
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Tom Hanks And Rita Wilson Suffered Completely Different Covid-19 Symptoms

The Late Show with Stephen Colbert

Tom Hanks share details of what he and wife Rita Wilson went through as they battled and recovered from Covid-19.


3274 posts

Uber Geek


  #2524261 16-Jul-2020 18:09
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on a further note about t cells and immunity, Sweden have done a lot of research into antibodies and immunity and one study found that out of 204 people studied who had the virus and recovered had few antibodies but As well as measuring antibody levels, tests examined levels of T-cell response. T-cells are a type of white blood cell that helps the immune system fightviruses, and are increasingly thought to have a key role in battling coronavirus. In total, 30 per cent of the healthy blood donors were found to have developed "T-cell immunity" – twice the number of cases in which antibodies were detected. The  immunological analysis of samples from over 200 people from Stockholm, carried out by Karolinska Institutet and Karolinska University Hospital, found that roughly 30 percent of healthy blood donors had Covid-19-specific T-cells despite no symptoms of infection.

 

it remained to be determined whether a robust T-cell response to Sars-CoV-2, without detectable antibodies, could protect against the disease.

 

But it also noted none of the people in the study who had recovered from Covid-19, including those who had mild cases or were asymptomatic, had caught the disease again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





Common sense is not as common as you think.


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Uber Geek


  #2524276 16-Jul-2020 18:23
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

 

 

Chris Hipkins said "there are hotels not prisons" Way over 30,000 and 4 notable issues. One person cut his way out, how do you stop that?

 

 

I am guessing that is one reason they have installed heavier duty higher fences, plus now have police onsite. That police presence means anyone trying to  breach the cordon can potentially be arrested onsite immediately, which makes a huge difference IMO


 
 
 
 


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  #2524279 16-Jul-2020 18:26
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mattwnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

 

 

Chris Hipkins said "there are hotels not prisons" Way over 30,000 and 4 notable issues. One person cut his way out, how do you stop that?

 

 

I am guessing that is one reason they have installed heavier duty higher fences, plus now have police onsite. That police presence means anyone trying to  breach the cordon can potentially be arrested onsite immediately, which makes a huge difference IMO

 

 

Yes it all helps. There was one police officer per location, has that changed? As we have seen globally, this is an issue. You can't make it 100% watertight unless you make it a prison.


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  #2524287 16-Jul-2020 18:36
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A nice summary.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122156782/how-new-zealand-could-keep-eliminating-covid19-the-border-for-months-to-come-even-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-worsens

 

Its not risk free, but we have done extraordinarily well. If the globe gets worse, we are better off and should appreciate that a lot. Level 4 lockdown is a distant memory


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  #2524293 16-Jul-2020 19:33
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kingdragonfly: There’s ample blame to go around in US teen’s COVID-19 death

 

Quite a few years ago I litigated a case on behalf of a DHB (as junior counsel to a QC) to force some right wing religious nutter who was opposing her daughter's necessary treatment to let science do its thing. Needless to say, common sense ultimately prevailed. The nutter represented herself but the court also appointed a counsel to assist it. I think just about everybody wanted to smack the stupid woman by the end of the case. Screw these types of people.

 

 


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  #2524470 17-Jul-2020 00:00
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tdgeek:

 

You can't make it 100% watertight unless you make it a prison.

 

 

Prisons aren't 100% secure either though.


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  #2524476 17-Jul-2020 01:27
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tdgeek:

 

A nice summary.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122156782/how-new-zealand-could-keep-eliminating-covid19-the-border-for-months-to-come-even-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-worsens

 

Its not risk free, but we have done extraordinarily well. If the globe gets worse, we are better off and should appreciate that a lot. Level 4 lockdown is a distant memory

 

 

Yep good article.

 

I normally have great respect for Helen Clark, but not to sure what she is thinking here:

 

" We disagree with the recent claim by former chief science advisor Sir Peter Gluckman, former prime minister Helen Clark and ex-Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe that new cases of community transmission are "logically inevitable" and New Zealand should therefore reopen borders more quickly."

 

 

 

If new cases of CT are inevitable what was the point of level 4 lock down. There is a risk at moment, so yep probably will happen eventually, but better to keep that risk as low as possible. The US is showing that living with the virus is not an option.

 

And having opening  of borders with restrictions on working, gatherings, distancing, verses closed borders and no restrictions (other then international travel ), I think being able to live domestically with no restrictions is a better quality of life for most. Business will suffer under each path, just different ones.


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  #2524477 17-Jul-2020 01:33
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rugrat:

 

tdgeek:

 

A nice summary.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122156782/how-new-zealand-could-keep-eliminating-covid19-the-border-for-months-to-come-even-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-worsens

 

Its not risk free, but we have done extraordinarily well. If the globe gets worse, we are better off and should appreciate that a lot. Level 4 lockdown is a distant memory

 

 

Yep good article.

 

I normally have great respect for Helen Clark, but not to sure what she is thinking here:

 

" We disagree with the recent claim by former chief science advisor Sir Peter Gluckman, former prime minister Helen Clark and ex-Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe that new cases of community transmission are "logically inevitable" and New Zealand should therefore reopen borders more quickly."

 

 

 

If new cases of CT are inevitable what was the point of level 4 lock down. There is a risk at moment, so yep probably will happen eventually, but better to keep that risk as low as possible. The US is showing that living with the virus is not an option.

 

And having opening  of borders with restrictions on working, gatherings, distancing, verses closed borders and no restrictions (other then international travel ), I think being able to live domestically with no restrictions is a better quality of life for most. Business will suffer under each path, just different ones.

 

 

You neglected to post the crux of their argument - that the current tracking, taking and quarantine facilities are inadequate for a COVID world and should be upgraded.

 

 


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  #2524479 17-Jul-2020 01:59
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Handle9:

 

[

 

You neglected to post the crux of their argument - that the current tracking, taking and quarantine facilities are inadequate for a COVID world and should be upgraded.

 

 

 

 

So they want open borders with every traveler having to quarantine? Don't see that working for most tourists.

 

Do agree need better tracking, and upgraded facilities.

 

 


4099 posts

Uber Geek


  #2524756 17-Jul-2020 13:45
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+1 again today. Pakistan via Dubai.

 

With so many via Doha/Syd and Dubai I was under the impression Dubai was taking a hard stance at transiting passengers being tested before flights with the quick test. but may only be Emirates from high risks.

 

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/07/10/emirates-to-require-passengers-from-high-risk-countries-to-take-covid-19-test-before-travel/

 

The rule applies to both passengers travelling to UAE, as well as passengers who are simply connecting through Dubai International Airport (DXB) to their final destination.

 

Think I mentioned somewhere here that Victoria is going to look grim shortly with the symptomatic delays despite the 'lockdown' that really isn't...

 

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