2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2526236 20-Jul-2020 21:45

Scott3:

vexxxboy:

once a country starts making masks compulsory , you know the virus is out of control

I don't think so. The evidence seems to be that masks are a fairly easy & low cost way to reduce spread of the virus.

I would think it would be one of the first things to do when you have cases of the virus wild in the community.

if masks are made compulsory then you dont know who has it where it is and where it is spreading to. It is far more effective to ban group gatherings, stay home as much as possible and keep social distance when you go out, pretty much like we did. Again masks are just used to stop the spread of the virus , they still dont prevent you catching it. if you watch footage of people in the USA they think they are safe so they dont bother practising social distancing and they gather in large groups with people who dont wear masks , it's the exact reason the government here didnt make masks compulsory because people feel safe and dont bother to do the main things that keep you safe.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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#2526238 20-Jul-2020 21:49

vexxxboy:

if masks are made compulsory then you dont know who has it where it is and where it is spreading to. It is far more effective to ban group gatherings, stay home as much as possible and keep social distance when you go out, pretty much like we did. Again masks are just used to stop the spread of the virus , they still dont prevent you catching it. if you watch footage of people in the USA they think they are safe so they dont bother practising social distancing and they gather in large groups with people who dont wear masks , it's the exact reason the government here didnt make masks compulsory because people feel safe and dont bother to do the main things that keep you safe.

Australia (mainly Melbourne) is probably past some of that in certain areas. Also, from what I've seen when talking to some people in Australia - some of them really don't seem worried at all. I know people that are still going to the office even up to last Friday, when they could perfectly well work from home.

Some seem to be very relaxed about the whole thing.

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lxsw20

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#2526297 20-Jul-2020 22:58

Oblivian:

Batman:
So if you have no stock then you can't wear mask right?

Not quite.

They're headlining it masks.

But the idea appears to be 'face covering'. Be it a bandana, bra, mask, stockings..

Same as the UK, masks/face coverings are compulsory on public transport because you can't social distance. From my personal experience I would say about 80% comply, 10% have decided a face mask is really a chin guard, and the other 10% don't bother.

Scott3

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#2526299 20-Jul-2020 23:11

vexxxboy:

if masks are made compulsory then you dont know who has it where it is and where it is spreading to. It is far more effective to ban group gatherings, stay home as much as possible and keep social distance when you go out, pretty much like we did. Again masks are just used to stop the spread of the virus , they still dont prevent you catching it. if you watch footage of people in the USA they think they are safe so they dont bother practising social distancing and they gather in large groups with people who dont wear masks , it's the exact reason the government here didnt make masks compulsory because people feel safe and dont bother to do the main things that keep you safe.

"It is far more effective to ban group gatherings, stay home as much as possible and keep social distance when you go out, pretty much like we did."

Those things are quite expensive to the economy, and are not mutually exclusive with mask wearing in public.

My understanding wide spread mask wearing wasn't recommended here was due to a lack of evidence about the effectiveness of masks (along with concerns about untrained people following correct donning a doffing practices). This evidence now exists.

While the stuff about a false sense of confidence about masks may be true, but is is at odds with how we deal with other risks in this country. We could get rid of the seatbelt law too based on the same logic, but we don't.

DS248

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#2526306 20-Jul-2020 23:44

New Tasmanian coronavirus case confirmed as young woman returning from Victoria

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-20/tasmania-new-coronavirus-case-woman-returning-from-vic/12473222

Fortunately in quarantine, so not really much different to a foreign import.

Handle9

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#2526308 20-Jul-2020 23:52

Oblivian:

Same as the UK, masks/face coverings are compulsory on public transport because you can't social distance. From my personal experience I would say about 80% comply, 10% have decided a face mask is really a chin guard, and the other 10% don't bother.

Most places that require masks are the same - it doesn't have to be a surgical mask, just something that covers your mouth and nose. It's a little annoying, especially for those with glasses, but not really a big deal

The mask culture wars are quite possibly the dumbest sh&t ever. At worst masks don't do much, best case they help slow the spread.

mattwnz

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#2526309 20-Jul-2020 23:53

Scott3:

My understanding wide spread mask wearing wasn't recommended here was due to a lack of evidence about the effectiveness of masks (along with concerns about untrained people following correct donning a doffing practices). This evidence now exists.

While the stuff about a false sense of confidence about masks may be true, but is is at odds with how we deal with other risks in this country. We could get rid of the seatbelt law too based on the same logic, but we don't.

IMO this was always a weak argument by the MOH. They were saying that it wasn't recommended by the World Health Organization at the time, so the jury was out. Even though it was common sense that someone with covid that was wearing a mask, could help to prevent the spread if they are wearing a mask, because the mask could help contain any droplets from coughs or sneezes from a Covid case. They have also been commonly used in Asian countries for years to help prevent spread of colds and flu.

Also the MOH were saying that touching surfaces that maybe infected with Covid, and then readjusting your mask on your face, so transferring the virus from your hands to the damp mask, could potentially mean that you were more likely to get infected, which is possibly true. But this is why we needed education on mask wearing.I think one problem was just a lack of masks at the time, even though cloth masks , and N95 masks used in a hospital environment are different and from different supply chains.

But the big problem NZ has is that we haven't had any education around how to wear masks, in case we have to wear them in the future due to another outbreak, which is very possible due to the relatively high number of cases coming into NZ, which is seen as the source of the outbreak in Victoria. IMO this isn't good enough, as we have now had plenty of time to educate how people can use them safely. It is a bit like the lack of education about downloading the covid app, and also keeping a note of your daily activities. Preparation and education now IMO is the key that could help save lives and the massive economic costs of another outbreak.

mattwnz

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#2526312 21-Jul-2020 01:00

I also noticed in the US, some people over there seem to think wearing a mask is the magic solution, and if everyone wears a mask, they wouldn't have a problem, and everything could reopen. If only.

frankv

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#2526318 21-Jul-2020 07:06

Handle9:
jarledb:

Turns out that keeping everything open did not help the economy, at least not for Sweden.

The economy globally has huge problems. The questions isn't if the recession is happening it's how deep/long will it go, how many people will be effected and to what extent it can be mitigated.

I think that if all your neighbours and trading partners are shut down, then it's inevitable that your own economy will take a hit. Possibly if enough other countries had stayed open, their economies and Sweden's would have taken less of a hit. Not that I think staying open would have been a good idea, just saying.

vexxxboy

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#2526321 21-Jul-2020 07:17

Scott3:

"It is far more effective to ban group gatherings, stay home as much as possible and keep social distance when you go out, pretty much like we did."

Those things are quite expensive to the economy, and are not mutually exclusive with mask wearing in public.

My understanding wide spread mask wearing wasn't recommended here was due to a lack of evidence about the effectiveness of masks (along with concerns about untrained people following correct donning a doffing practices). This evidence now exists.

While the stuff about a false sense of confidence about masks may be true, but is is at odds with how we deal with other risks in this country. We could get rid of the seatbelt law too based on the same logic, but we don't.

with this virus you have a choice, do what NZ did and be where we are now or do what the USA did and care more about the economy and be where they are. Evidence now shows you cant really be in the middle , the last evidence i saw was that wearing a surgical mask or homemade gives you a slight advantage of protection , about 10% more than not wearing it , it does stop the person spreading it which is what they were designed for.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

kingdragonfly

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#2526325 21-Jul-2020 07:35

Oblivian:
Batman:
So if you have no stock then you can't wear mask right?

Not quite.

They're headlining it masks.

But the idea appears to be 'face covering'. Be it a bandana, bra, mask, stockings..

DIY Coronavirus thong face mask

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DS248

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#2526336 21-Jul-2020 08:05

Preliminary report on the Oxford University vaccine Phase 1/2 trials

Folegatti et al (2020), Safety and immunogenicity of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine against SARS-CoV-2: a preliminary report of a phase 1/2, single-blind, randomised controlled trial, The Lancet, 20 July 2020

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31604-4/fulltext

"ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 showed an acceptable safety profile, and homologous boosting increased antibody responses. These results, together with the induction of both humoral and cellular immune responses, support large-scale evaluation of this candidate vaccine in an ongoing phase 3 programme."

Oblivian

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#2526344 21-Jul-2020 08:36

mattwnz:

I also noticed in the US, some people over there seem to think wearing a mask is the magic solution, and if everyone wears a mask, they wouldn't have a problem, and everything could reopen. If only.

More, 'If I don't I might get a fine. Noones enforcing it. But they might'

Fred99

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#2526347 21-Jul-2020 08:44

frankv:
I think that if all your neighbours and trading partners are shut down, then it's inevitable that your own economy will take a hit. Possibly if enough other countries had stayed open, their economies and Sweden's would have taken less of a hit. Not that I think staying open would have been a good idea, just saying.

There's going to be a hit to the economy from the pandemic whether you shut down or not. People don't want to get this virus, their behaviour will change with regard to what activities they do short term as well as confidence in the long term - especially when jobs are disappearing.

AFAIK Sweden didn't "keep everything open" - they just didn't have enforced lock-downs (except in the case of aged care facilities) and hoped that high compliance with social distancing laws and guidelines would slow the pandemic and avoid overwhelming the health system.

Fred99

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#2526352 21-Jul-2020 08:56

DS248:

Preliminary report on the Oxford University vaccine Phase 1/2 trials

Folegatti et al (2020), Safety and immunogenicity of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine against SARS-CoV-2: a preliminary report of a phase 1/2, single-blind, randomised controlled trial, The Lancet, 20 July 2020

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31604-4/fulltext

"ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 showed an acceptable safety profile, and homologous boosting increased antibody responses. These results, together with the induction of both humoral and cellular immune responses, support large-scale evaluation of this candidate vaccine in an ongoing phase 3 programme."

Yep - with cautions.

Meanwhile from Russia, as reported by Bloomberg:

Scores of Russia’s business and political elite have been given early access to an experimental vaccine against Covid-19, according to people familiar with the effort, as the country races to be among the first to develop an inoculation.

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