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Fred99
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  #2534059 3-Aug-2020 21:12
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sbiddle:

 

Fred99:

 

That's precisely what the phase 3 vaccine trials are doing - by large sample size vaccine trials in communities where C-19 is in circulation, and by vaccinating volunteers in smaller scale trials, then deliberately infecting them. The latter sounds great (brave move) but has a flaw that for ethical reasons volunteers exclude those most vulnerable to C-19, so you're not going to know for sure immune response in elderly etc.

 

It's premature to say that there's definitely some (cross) "immunity" because some people have different symptoms - the same could be said about smallpox or basically any other viral infection - some die, some don't etc.  We're all different.

 

 

Do you have a source for human challenge trials? I have certainly read nothing about these being undertaken anywhere, and Google can't link me to anything either. I had read stories in recent weeks about the potential for this (and some people pushing for this), but infecting people raises all sorts of huge ethics issues hence the fact it's vary rare.

 

The phase 3 trials that are occuring are largely being tested in Covid-19 hotspots where community transmission is occuring, and testing and placebo testing with people such as doctors in hospitals treating patients. This is very different from purposely infecting somebody.

 

 

They're going to happen.  There are already far more volunteers than needed.
WHO has a framework here

 

Jenner Institute / "Oxford Vaccine" is gunning for it.

 

(Jenner - LOL - grabbed his gardener's 8YO son for a "challenge trial" for smallpox - could have been hero or zero, was hero fortunately for humanity and the 8YO boy).

 

 

 

 


sbiddle
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  #2534071 3-Aug-2020 21:23
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Yip so no actual human challenge trials yet - just people pushing for them.

 

 


 
 
 
 


Fred99
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  #2534086 3-Aug-2020 21:36
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sbiddle:

 

Yip so no actual human challenge trials yet - just people pushing for them.

 

 

I thought I'd read that a challenge trial had approval in Brazil - but finding anything twice on the net WRT C-19 is a different kind of challenge.

 

They'll happen - in fact I'd be 100% confident that they'll be underway already in places where human rights / ethics might be less of an issue.

 

Russia is apparently rolling out a mass vaccination program in a couple of months (October).


Fred99
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  #2534149 3-Aug-2020 22:14
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Get the cruise ship industry up and running.  What could possibly go wrong?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/03/two-cruise-ships-hit-by-coronavirus-weeks-after-industry-restarts


Tinkerisk
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  #2534208 4-Aug-2020 02:14
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sbiddle:

 

If there is no long term immunity a vaccine is also going to be pretty worthless as well so using your argument we may as well just all accept it's here for ever..

 

 

Nope. People can (some must) get a vaccination renewal each season and adpted to the most common viruses expected for that period. According to your logic, they don't have to.





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sbiddle
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  #2534226 4-Aug-2020 08:12
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Tinkerisk:

 

sbiddle:

 

If there is no long term immunity a vaccine is also going to be pretty worthless as well so using your argument we may as well just all accept it's here for ever..

 

 

Nope. People can (some must) get a vaccination renewal each season and adpted to the most common viruses expected for that period. According to your logic, they don't have to.

 

 

All the reports that say there is no such thing as "long term immunity" after catching Codid-19 all claim that immunity may only be for 1-3 months maximum. If that were true you'd potentially be needing a new vaccine every 3 months, rather than yearly like influenza.

 

I tend to have greater belief in newer research rather than reports from months ago.

 

 


empacher48
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  #2534264 4-Aug-2020 09:28
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This whole discussion about whether long term immunity from COVID is a thing or not, is happening far too soon. COVID hasn't been around in humans for long enough to know for sure if there is such a thing.

 

Yes right now we may know that once you've had a mild case of COVID you may still have T-cells or antibodies 8 months later, if we test the first cases from Wuhan.

 

We only know that the vaccine does provide immunity for, what, three months? Because the first Phase one trials started only a few months ago.

 

The discussion on long term immunity and effectiveness of vaccinations for this, will be something which will be talked about over the next five or six years.

 

By then, the current vaccinations under development will have been amended and improved upon. As the science and knowledge base about this virus improves with time, then better vaccines will be developed and more and better drugs will be found to treat the worst cases.

 

In my mind, bring on the first generation viruses, even if they are only good for a year will be beneficial. By vaccinating those at higher risk of complications and those on the front line we can once again kick the can down the road to provide more time to learn more about this virus, how the immune system reacts to it. From there we can start working on the second generation of this vaccine, find better current drugs or start to create new drugs for treatment.


 
 
 
 


Fred99
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  #2534274 4-Aug-2020 09:52
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empacher48:

 

We only know that the vaccine does provide immunity for, what, three months? Because the first Phase one trials started only a few months ago.

 

 

We don't even know that for sure.  From animal trials it should work with humans, and recovered patients seem to be immune for some time - but until there's data from the phase 3 trials under way now, nothing is certain.

 

 


empacher48
225 posts

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  #2534282 4-Aug-2020 10:00
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Fred99:

 

We don't even know that for sure.  From animal trials it should work with humans, and recovered patients seem to be immune for some time - but until there's data from the phase 3 trials under way now, nothing is certain.

 

 

I was inferring from the Lancet's report on the Oxford vaccine trial, which did say that those who received the first shot and then a booster did still show T-cell and antibodies after 56 days, yeah not three months. But they were reported at higher amounts than those who received a mild dose of COVID at the same time frame.

 

The one thing that was positive about the report was that there was t-cell response from the vaccine, not just antibodies. The T-cell response does give an indication that the immunity won't be lost in the short term as the T-cells will recognise the virus and then can stimulate the bodies own production of SARS-COV-2 antibodies down the track.

 

We won't know how effective that is for a long time yet.


Oblivian
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  #2534452 4-Aug-2020 11:53
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Oh dear. Another one who likely never experienced lockdown and now is. And it's just NOT FAIR

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12353494 


GV27
2348 posts

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  #2534460 4-Aug-2020 12:03
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Oblivian:

 

Oh dear. Another one who likely never experienced lockdown and now is. And it's just NOT FAIR

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12353494 

 

 

"The woman said she had since used her yoga mat and an app and exercised in her room but this didn't satisfy a need for social connection.

 

"It's important to be with people. It's really nice to socialise with people."

 

What part of 'isolation' does she not get. 


frankv
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  #2534461 4-Aug-2020 12:12
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Fred99:

 

You can't get evidence of long term (say 5+ years) immunity in humans for some disease that's only been around for months.

 

 


If there's no short-term immunity, it means that there won't be long-term immunity, right? And there's no evidence of short-term immunity.

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #2534466 4-Aug-2020 12:24
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Oblivian:

 

Oh dear. Another one who likely never experienced lockdown and now is. And it's just NOT FAIR

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12353494 

 

 

"It's like you're in prison"

 

She is right, the prisons probably have better expresso machines as well...h


wellygary
4929 posts

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  #2534473 4-Aug-2020 12:29
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Oblivian:

 

Oh dear. Another one who likely never experienced lockdown and now is. And it's just NOT FAIR

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12353494 

 

 


Although to be honest, my biggest complaint is with the Herald for running this non-story.

 

You get the feeling that what was once print now wants to become talkback radio....


Oblivian
4254 posts

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  #2534478 4-Aug-2020 12:38
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wellygary:
Although to be honest, my biggest complaint is with the Herald for running this non-story.


You get the feeling that what was once print now wants to become talkback radio....



Oh yes. And many pages ago there was many of us angered at the same thing.

Slow news day as it were. But anything to discredit the systems in place = priority

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