2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2544600 19-Aug-2020 15:59

DS248:

Amazing how similar the NSW and Auckland hotel security guard cases are; US origin, no apparent direct contact, notified same day, ... Do have to wonder about the hotel air conditioning, as Mattwnz suggested?

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/sydney-marriott-hotel-quarantine-covid-case-has-no-obvious-link-c-1250054

The big problem with the AK cases is the Gap in time,

She was sent from their to Jetpark on July 31st, he first noticed symptoms (but wrote them off) on 11th August... That's a big gap for a surface contact- potentially 5-6 days, then 5-6 days incubation until symptoms show...

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Scott3

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#2544627 19-Aug-2020 16:46

ezbee:

....

As far as card access surveillance, well someone in hotel biz might have insight on what can go on.
....

I'm not in the industry, but the obvious issue is that staff are unlikely to use their cards to enter occupied rooms.

In general (not in isolation) when I have had a maintenance worker come to my hotel room, they knock and wait for me to open the door before they enter the room.

No idea if hotel procedures call for the worker to scan their card on the door at some point for logging purposes (when it was not required to enter the room).

wellygary

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#2544631 19-Aug-2020 16:53

Scott3:

ezbee:

....

As far as card access surveillance, well someone in hotel biz might have insight on what can go on.
....

I'm not in the industry, but the obvious issue is that staff are unlikely to use their cards to enter occupied rooms.

In general (not in isolation) when I have had a maintenance worker come to my hotel room, they knock and wait for me to open the door before they enter the room.

No idea if hotel procedures call for the worker to scan their card on the door at some point for logging purposes (when it was not required to enter the room).

Yeah, but this investigation is not being done in a vacuum,

The Room Occupier is here in NZ, so if they did open the door or have contact with the Worker, presumably they have made contact with MoH and let them know... ( or just gone to the media)...

They may have even been fully interviewed by the contract tracing team.... ( if they are now out in the community)

Scott3

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#2544633 19-Aug-2020 16:57

wellygary:

The big problem with the AK cases is the Gap in time,

She was sent from their to Jetpark on July 31st, he first noticed symptoms (but wrote them off) on 11th August... That's a big gap for a surface contact- potentially 5-6 days, then 5-6 days incubation until symptoms show...

On the press conference it was alluded that that it was direct transmission, but they are trying to rule out an intermediary.

The worker may have:

Had an abnormally long incubation period.
Had symptoms prior to the 11th, but not noticed them (perhaps due to the same pre-existing condition that they wrote off the symptoms on the 11th)

Batman

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#2544637 19-Aug-2020 17:16

"first 9 days of lockdown was illegal but justified"

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/lockdown-unlawful-first-9-days-high-court-rules

MikeB4

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#2544638 19-Aug-2020 17:29

Batman:

"first 9 days of lockdown was illegal but justified"

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/lockdown-unlawful-first-9-days-high-court-rules

I really don't know how to process this.

Oldmanakbar

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#2544647 19-Aug-2020 17:40

I think the best way to process it would be to say everyone probably agrees it was a good idea anyway?

Which is what the court said basically.

cruxis

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#2544653 19-Aug-2020 17:47

It's like when you shoot someone attacking another person with a machete, illegal but justified.

Dingbatt

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#2544656 19-Aug-2020 17:51

MikeB4:

Batman:

"first 9 days of lockdown was illegal but justified"

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/lockdown-unlawful-first-9-days-high-court-rules

I really don't know how to process this.

I would suggest that unless you are particularly exercised about the legal aspects that you view it as history and hope the i’s are dotted and t’s are crossed in similar circumstances in the future.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

MikeB4

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#2544658 19-Aug-2020 17:57

Dingbatt:

I would suggest that unless you are particularly exercised about the legal aspects that you view it as history and hope the i’s are dotted and t’s are crossed in similar circumstances in the future.

A thought that crossed my mind was could this decision lead to more court cases especially around financial loss that individuals and organisations have suffered. I have no idea if this kind of decision can lead to this and how big is the possible Hornets nest is.

tdgeek

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#2544663 19-Aug-2020 18:12

MikeB4:

Batman:

"first 9 days of lockdown was illegal but justified"

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/lockdown-unlawful-first-9-days-high-court-rules

I really don't know how to process this.

Its in the article. It was reasonable, and it was not lawful, as it was an oral directive and not written, as it was on April 3. Had the original directive been a written order, it would be lawful.

tdgeek

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#2544665 19-Aug-2020 18:16

MikeB4:

Dingbatt:

I would suggest that unless you are particularly exercised about the legal aspects that you view it as history and hope the i’s are dotted and t’s are crossed in similar circumstances in the future.

A thought that crossed my mind was could this decision lead to more court cases especially around financial loss that individuals and organisations have suffered. I have no idea if this kind of decision can lead to this and how big is the possible Hornets nest is.

Just watching the news, the breaches appear to have been ok to have been charged. Going back to earlier in this Govt, they were criticised for the Working Groups. Time, time, time. Legally now, process wasn't exact, did we want the L4 lockdown to be delayed? I think not.

mattwnz

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#2544666 19-Aug-2020 18:16

Looks like they are finally going to get tough on the border. Interesting some of the information that has come out, including around testing, or lack of it, with frontline staff, and how the tests were seen as being too invasive to be done regularly, even though it would reduce the risk a lot. Also around security staff. Winston is now talking about proper military run quaratines, which IMO is probably what we now need, if we want to avoid more lockdowns. This is the ideal sort of thing IMO for the defense force to be use for.

GV27

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#2544667 19-Aug-2020 18:17

Oldmanakbar: I think the best way to process it would be to say everyone probably agrees it was a good idea anyway? Which is what the court said basically.

Pretty much, but the fact it was justified doesn't mean you can take shortcuts and the correct legal process always has to be observed, no matter what is going on.

The only real winner is everyone who likes societies where the governments can't just shut things down on a whim and the only real losers are first year law students who now have to learn about this as well as Fitzgerald v Muldoon.

mattwnz

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#2544668 19-Aug-2020 18:19

tdgeek:

Just watching the news, the breaches appear to have been ok to have been charged. Going back to earlier in this Govt, they were criticised for the Working Groups. Time, time, time. Legally now, process wasn't exact, did we want the L4 lockdown to be delayed? I think not.

I am wondering if a state of disaster had been declared (rather than just a state of emergency), like they did in Victoria, whether it would have changed anything. I sympathize with the government on this because there was no blueprint for this event, so they were doing what was right for everyone. The appointment of these two new people was apparently Winstons idea, and IMO it isn't similar to previous working groups, and IMO it is a good idea.

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