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MikeB4
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  #2545370 20-Aug-2020 16:18
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Rikkitic:

 

They weren't in the same lift at the same time and there are no cameras to show what each one did. The most likely theory is that they both touched the same surface, probably the lift button. It is unlikely that contamination occurred through respiration.

 

 

 

 

I read somewhere (I will try to find the source) that the aerosol vapour from breathing can carry the virus and the virus stays active for quite some time on those aerosol particles. That is a possible source of infection as these particles could remain suspended in the air of a elevator car for quite a while.


wellygary
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  #2545374 20-Aug-2020 16:21
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MikeB4:

 

I read somewhere (I will try to find the source) that the aerosol vapour from breathing can carry the virus and the virus stays active for quite some time on those aerosol particles. That is a possible source of infection as these particles could remain suspended in the air of a elevator car for quite a while.

 

 

To be honest, whether it was a surface or hanging droplets isn't the material issue....

 

it is are we accepting of the 11 day incubation period before symptoms??....


 
 
 
 


MikeB4
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  #2545377 20-Aug-2020 16:24
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wellygary:

 

 

 

To be honest, whether it was a surface or hanging droplets isn't the material issue....

 

it is are we accepting of the 11 day incubation period before symptoms??....

 

 

Isn't the incubation period before symptoms become apparent is up to 14 days with an average circa 5 days?


concordnz
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  #2545380 20-Aug-2020 16:28
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MikeB4:

wellygary:


 


To be honest, whether it was a surface or hanging droplets isn't the material issue....


it is are we accepting of the 11 day incubation period before symptoms??....



Isn't the incubation period before symptoms become apparent is up to 14 days with an average circa 5 days?



11 days is irrelevant.
A hotel lift is a nice warm(germ friendly) environment - it could easily have hung around in there for 7-8 days.
(Compared to the wild speculation that it could could survive freezing)

Rikkitic
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  #2545381 20-Aug-2020 16:30
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MikeB4:

 

Rikkitic:

 

They weren't in the same lift at the same time and there are no cameras to show what each one did. The most likely theory is that they both touched the same surface, probably the lift button. It is unlikely that contamination occurred through respiration.

 

 

 

 

I read somewhere (I will try to find the source) that the aerosol vapour from breathing can carry the virus and the virus stays active for quite some time on those aerosol particles. That is a possible source of infection as these particles could remain suspended in the air of a elevator car for quite a while.

 

 

I have seen that too but I believe it requires specific circumstances, which might not occur in a lift. From what I read, the virus doesn't remain in the air more than a few seconds, so timing would be a factor. But that sounds different to what you are saying.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


wellygary
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  #2545382 20-Aug-2020 16:32
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concordnz:
11 days is irrelevant.
A hotel lift is a nice warm(germ friendly) environment - it could easily have hung around in there for 7-8 days.
(Compared to the wild speculation that it could could survive freezing)

 

But they are pinning the contact to a time when the two travelled in the lift shortly after each other, ( which must be before 31 July when she was moved to Jet park) .. so 11 days is relevant


Scott3
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  #2545383 20-Aug-2020 16:33
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wellygary:

 

To be honest, whether it was a surface or hanging droplets isn't the material issue....

 

it is are we accepting of the 11 day incubation period before symptoms??....

 

 

I don't think it is that much of a stretch. We have a reasonable number of people in isolation who have negitive test results on day 2 and positive on day 12, without having symptoms (people in isolation are checked for symptoms and transferred to quarantine if they have them)

Symptoms in this case were sufficiently minor that they were written off as a pre-exsting condition. It is possible that they were actually pre-existing condition symptoms rather than covid-19 symptoms. In this light, getting infected some time before throwing the positive test is not infeasible.


 
 
 
 


Rikkitic
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  #2545384 20-Aug-2020 16:33
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concordnz:

 

A hotel lift is a nice warm(germ friendly) environment - it could easily have hung around in there for 7-8 days.
(Compared to the wild speculation that it could could survive freezing)

 

Viruses are not people. They do quite well in freezing temperatures. Probably less well in warm ones.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


mattwnz
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  #2545385 20-Aug-2020 16:34
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MikeB4:

 

Rikkitic:

 

They weren't in the same lift at the same time and there are no cameras to show what each one did. The most likely theory is that they both touched the same surface, probably the lift button. It is unlikely that contamination occurred through respiration.

 

 

 

 

I read somewhere (I will try to find the source) that the aerosol vapour from breathing can carry the virus and the virus stays active for quite some time on those aerosol particles. That is a possible source of infection as these particles could remain suspended in the air of a elevator car for quite a while.

 

 

 

 

Yes this is what I have heard too multiple times. Also I don't know what form of air-conditioning or air circulation they use in lifts, so how long droplets could remain in such a space for others to breath in. It is a partly airbourne virus, particularly in indoor settings with poor ventilation. 

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/transmission-of-sars-cov-2-implications-for-infection-prevention-precautions  

 

 

 

I would have thought covid  being on surfaces could be as much of a risk, because people working in those hotel would be regularly washing their hands and following all the safety procedures. 


Geektastic
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  #2545460 20-Aug-2020 17:16
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Rikkitic:

 

concordnz:

 

A hotel lift is a nice warm(germ friendly) environment - it could easily have hung around in there for 7-8 days.
(Compared to the wild speculation that it could could survive freezing)

 

Viruses are not people. They do quite well in freezing temperatures. Probably less well in warm ones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think scientists revived bacteria from Antarctica that had been frozen for a very long time. I know viruses are not bacteria, but it goes to show you that these tiny things can be very tough.






concordnz
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  #2545484 20-Aug-2020 17:36
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Viruses are totally different.
And temperature tolerance is very specific to each virus.

Don't be fooled by the fact that 'some' can survive hot & 'some' can survive hot (volcanoes/fumeroles). Each are totally different viruses & can't survive in the others environment.

concordnz
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  #2545492 20-Aug-2020 17:47
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Other countries are requiring Tests before flying.
It's a perfectly acceptable strategy.

We should have been requiring this month's ago.
(I see it as an OSH failing on the part of AirNZ - they are purposefully putting passengers at risk - knowingly flying people who are likely carrying a deadly disease in the same plane as other disease free, paying customers)
[It's a shame some Lawyer doesn't make themselves useful & lay a complaint with OSH! & get this 'weak link' fixed! ]

It would hugely reduce the risk of infected people in Airports & reduce 90% flying infected people in the same aeroplane as 'clear' people.

And quarantine for those people could potentially be limited to a Covid Test 5 days after arrival(while in quarantine) - & a shortened quarantine to 7 days.

It's easy to identify countries we can get 'trusted' test from (Australia is one ) - [Countries would have to 'prove' they could provide curruption free tests.]

All other countries would have to continue with the current 14 day quarantine.

If we can reduce the number of infected coming into the country - we significantly reduce the border risk & protect our people & economy.

DS248
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  #2545493 20-Aug-2020 17:51
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MikeB4:

 

wellygary: ...

 

it is are we accepting of the 11 day incubation period before symptoms??....

 

 

Isn't the incubation period before symptoms become apparent is up to 14 days with an average circa 5 days?

 

 

 

 

There are a number of imported cases in Taiwan where first symptoms were reported 8 - 12 days after arrival - so time from exposure to first (awareness of) symptoms was at least 8 - 12 days (and confirmation in Taiwan would have likely been two days after that).  So, yes, 11 day incubation period does appear possible.

 

==

 

And the corollary - symptoms up to 3 weeks before arrival, then still testing positive in Taiwan. 

 

And an even more interesting cases: 

 

eg. #444 & #445.  A couple diagnosed with COVID-19 and received treatment at a local hospital in Bangladesh.  Symptoms of #444 disappeared on May 26.  Tested negative for COVID-19 on May 28 and June 2.  Case #445 tested negative for COVID-19 on June 2. 
Asymptomatic when arriving in Taiwan on 13 June but voluntarily reported their previous diagnoses.  Both cases laboratory-confirmed on June 15 and hospitalized in isolation for medical treatment.

 

So in the case of #444, symptoms cleared and tested negative more than two weeks before testing positive on arrival in Taiwan.  Reinfection?

 

 


JaseNZ
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  #2545503 20-Aug-2020 18:06
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National are saying they would do suburb and or street lockdowns, Good luck with trying that. 😂





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freitasm
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  #2545504 20-Aug-2020 18:06
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@concordnz: Other countries are requiring Tests before flying.

 

It's a perfectly acceptable strategy.

 

If we can reduce the number of infected coming into the country - we significantly reduce the border risk & protect our people & economy.

 

 

Then what? If a New Zealand citizen test positive would you prevent the person from boarding? Would you leave the citizen stranded on the other side? Because that's what National wants to do.

 

And what if a person is tested three days before flying? Would the policy still require a 14 day quarantine even with a negative test?

 

Did they think the whole thing through?





 

 

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