2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Ultimate Geek

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#2546809 21-Aug-2020 09:10

freitasm:

Agreed an infected person shouldn't fly. No questions about that. But testing three days before flying doesn't guarantee someone will not be infected the moment they walk out of the testing area and develop symptoms the day after they arrive - managed isolation should still be mandatory to everyone coming into the country to capture these cases.

Also it wouldn't be too far fetched to think some less reliable countries could have a black market in "health certificates" and people could buy fake testing results.

Yes, women can't fly when they are past some point in the pregnancy. The difference is that pregnancies have specific timelines (most of the times) so women and their partners can plan travels for before that point (unless it's an emergency in which case they would be heading to a hospital instead of the airport anyway).

Your point 1)
In my initial post I clearly stated "pre-tests" only accepted from qualifying/trusted countries (Australia being the only current 'trustworthy' one which springs to mind) - other countries would have to 'prove compitence' of testing system. before being 'whitelisted'

Point 2) Covid also has a specific time line & as soon as they are clear and tested negative twise they are free to fly. - clearly if they are sick wit Covid & need hospital treatment they shouldn't be flying either.

I believe we(& all countries)should be offering financial Hardship support to citizens stranded overseas (But ONLY IF they were tax residents of NZ in the last 12months period) - they should be able to apply for it via overseas Embassies. @ a weekly "living wage" in the country they are stick in.
I also believe there should be a fixed internationally agreed medical cost - which is paid to a country, which treats another countries citizen. (This removes the huge & wildly variable 'medical cost burden' off the family - & rightly moves it to their country of citizenship.
Unfortunately both these ideas require good 'controls' to stop them being abused by governments to get a revenue source (I could imaging African countries requiring all foriners to get tested - then claim they are all infected & trying to claim circa $5000 per person......

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concordnz

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#2546829 21-Aug-2020 09:18

freitasm:
"Sweden records highest death tally in 150 years in first half of 2020"

Sweden recorded its highest death tally in 150 years for the first half of 2020, according to the country's official statistics office.

Between January and June this year, 51,405 deaths were registered -- more than 6,500 fatalities (or 15%) over the same period in 2019.

This is the highest number of deaths in Sweden during the first half of the year since 1869, when the country was struck by famine and 55,431 people died.

Incredibly sad and in normal times horrifying.
My heart aches for the families losses - likely dieing in isolation of family members,

This should go down in history as a form of mini-genocide - a mistake which governments should learn from.
but instead will probably simply be a footnote of Covid

concordnz

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#2546837 21-Aug-2020 09:26

Batman:
cshwone:

Don't see how this would reduce costs. The number of bed nights would remain a constant.

can always get covid anytime after the test is done.

This statement is misleading.
You CAN'T get Covid if you are isolating PROPERLY

We proved that with the last NZ lock down (& this one)

The fact that our isolation facilities are poorly managed - doesn't change that fact.

Ge0rge

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#2546846 21-Aug-2020 09:43

freitasm:
"Sweden records highest death tally in 150 years in first half of 2020"

Sweden recorded its highest death tally in 150 years for the first half of 2020, according to the country's official statistics office.

Between January and June this year, 51,405 deaths were registered -- more than 6,500 fatalities (or 15%) over the same period in 2019.

This is the highest number of deaths in Sweden during the first half of the year since 1869, when the country was struck by famine and 55,431 people died.

Thinking out loud - shouldn't nearly every country (including ours) have their highest death count this year since *insert abnormal catastrophic event date here*?. If a country's population has been growing for some time, then surely there are more deaths year-on-year? I expect ours to be bigger next year than it was this year - perhaps not by 15%, but surely logic says if more people are born, more are going to die?

Batman

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#2546848 21-Aug-2020 09:45

concordnz:
Batman:

can always get covid anytime after the test is done.

This statement is misleading.
You CAN'T get Covid if you are isolating PROPERLY

We proved that with the last NZ lock down (& this one)

The fact that our isolation facilities are poorly managed - doesn't change that fact.

You need to look at the original statement. Which I'll quote

concordnz:

[I have suggested a shortened 7-10 day quarantine for all 'pretested' passengers - (being National - thats probably what they would do - to reduce quarantine costs)

ezbee

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#2546859 21-Aug-2020 09:51

Strangely enough it could have been worse and we have been lucky so far.

More on the Melbourne Hotel enquiry what a horror show, we are a very well oiled machine by comparison.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-20/victorian-covid19-hotel-quarantine-inquiry-hears-from-nurse/12577184

Final report looks like it will show that private hotels, security contractors, contract medical services need strong oversight.
Some might assume that organizations would act responsibly to protect their contract and continuing income, however in practice its more often the case of screwing down costs.
Casualised workforce reduces any pushback from staff who see it all going wrong, without an independent mechanism in place.
The neck that stands out gets chopped off.
Turning this over to Military can help, it brings structure ,but core problem is lack of an independent QA/whistleblowing mechanism.
Military also has its problems when things go wrong being a closed shop, then the spin starts to cover officers butt.

freitasm

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#2546862 21-Aug-2020 09:54

ezbee:

More on the Melbourne Hotel enquiry what a horror show, we are a very well oiled machine by comparison. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-20/victorian-covid19-hotel-quarantine-inquiry-hears-from-nurse/12577184

Final report looks like it will show that private hotels, security contractors, contract medical services need strong oversight.

Some might assume that organizations would act responsibly to protect their contract and continuing income, however in practice its more often the case of screwing down costs.

Casualised workforce reduces any pushback from staff who see it all going wrong, without an independent mechanism in place.

Like everything else, people complaining on the New Zealand performance seem to completely ignore the benchmark of poor results created by other countries... Just look at a headline on the NZ Herald today, by one of their "commentators": "Why we deserved a better Covid 19 coronavirus response"

Reading the article (which I don't usually but had the time), you would think we had Sweden or USA levels of death, misery going on in this country.

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Oblivian

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#2546865 21-Aug-2020 10:02

Woaahhh... Don't let factual outcomes get in the way of a good cattle prodding story, opinion piece or 'subscribe now' headline! ;)

The leader of one of those nations has had ANOTHER go at us today. 'Massive break out...'. Apparently massive is another word for very few.

Excuse me sir, what do you classify your own ongoing one as in that case. Oh yeah. 'Doing well'

GV27

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#2546866 21-Aug-2020 10:04

freitasm:

Like everything else, people complaining on the New Zealand performance seem to completely ignore the benchmark of poor results created by other countries... Just look at a headline on the NZ Herald today, by one of their "commentators": "Why we deserved a better Covid 19 coronavirus response"

The virus doesn't consider how our response stacks up internationally before decided to spread beyond quarantine if it gets the chance. I don't see why we should accept obvious issues with our systems because other places aren't even really trying (USA, etc).

Batman

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#2546873 21-Aug-2020 10:11

Oblivian:
Woaahhh... Don't let factual outcomes get in the way of a good cattle prodding story, opinion piece or 'subscribe now' headline! ;)

The leader of one of those nations has had ANOTHER go at us today. 'Massive break out...'. Apparently massive is another word for very few.

Excuse me sir, what do you classify your own ongoing one as in that case. Oh yeah. 'Doing well'

Doing very very well.

Fred99

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#2546874 21-Aug-2020 10:11

GV27:

freitasm:

Like everything else, people complaining on the New Zealand performance seem to completely ignore the benchmark of poor results created by other countries... Just look at a headline on the NZ Herald today, by one of their "commentators": "Why we deserved a better Covid 19 coronavirus response"

The virus doesn't consider how our response stacks up internationally before decided to spread beyond quarantine if it gets the chance. I don't see why we should accept obvious issues with our systems because other places aren't even really trying (USA, etc).

From where in MF's comments did you get the impression that he or anybody else is suggesting "we should accept obvious issues"?

FineWine

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#2546879 21-Aug-2020 10:20

concordnz:

I have suggested a shortened 7-10 day quarantine for all 'pretested' passengers - (being National - thats probably what they would do - to reduce quarantine costs) but there is nothing 'wrong' with maintaining a 14 day quarantine, if it adds further protection and reduces risk in a 'material' way.(that's where medical expertise vrs cost/people whining give a cost/reward to maintaining the 14 days or shortening it.

Even astronauts go into preflight quarantine and they used to go into post flight quarantine especially the lunar trips.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

freitasm

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#2546882 21-Aug-2020 10:26

GV27:

freitasm:

Like everything else, people complaining on the New Zealand performance seem to completely ignore the benchmark of poor results created by other countries... Just look at a headline on the NZ Herald today, by one of their "commentators": "Why we deserved a better Covid 19 coronavirus response"

The virus doesn't consider how our response stacks up internationally before decided to spread beyond quarantine if it gets the chance. I don't see why we should accept obvious issues with our systems because other places aren't even really trying (USA, etc).

I did not say we should accept issues. What I am saying is that some people word their criticism in a way that makes it look like the government - and people - of New Zealand were doing nothing, or did everything wrong.

I am saying that politics gets in the way and people will lie, fabricate their own realities and try to distort the actual accomplishments to their own gains. And some people fall for it.

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Fred99

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#2546883 21-Aug-2020 10:30

FineWine:

concordnz:

I have suggested a shortened 7-10 day quarantine for all 'pretested' passengers - (being National - thats probably what they would do - to reduce quarantine costs) but there is nothing 'wrong' with maintaining a 14 day quarantine, if it adds further protection and reduces risk in a 'material' way.(that's where medical expertise vrs cost/people whining give a cost/reward to maintaining the 14 days or shortening it.

Even astronauts go into preflight quarantine and they used to go into post flight quarantine especially the lunar trips.

I made comment earlier about "moonvirus" paranoia and "moronvirus". After I posted I wondered if maybe "moonvirus" was a thing. And it is. I hate taxonomy. How could they do such a thing?

freitasm

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#2546898 21-Aug-2020 10:52

Was just curious this morning about this thread... Here are the page views since its creation:

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