2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2549015 24-Aug-2020 19:16

mattwnz:

But personally , the risk of getting a speeding fine, stops me from speeding. Likewise not using a phone in the car.

Nailed it, and this applies to MANY of us. Those people are not the problem. Thats the problem.

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tdgeek

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#2549017 24-Aug-2020 19:17

grimwulf:

Righto.

Masks are mandatory.

Without meaningful enforcement or penalties, people will simply not comply - the same idiots that went to the beach at the weekend are the same ones that will be cramming themselves on board buses and trains and planes and refusing to wear masks.

If it isn't point blank, no mask, no travel, call the police - then these types won't comply.

Even then they'll behave like children - wear it to board then take it off or slip it down below their chin - "what? I'm still wearing it?".

Then attempt to justify, trump-like, "it's my right not to wear a mask!".

Or religious folk, "it's against my religious teachings..."

Or then will come how this inevitably disadvantages some demographic...

Don't see how it'll ever be enforceable - can't see them putting a cop on every bus/train/plane.

100%

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#2549020 24-Aug-2020 19:25

PolicyGuy:

There are two problems with fines.

One is that they are uneven: a $250 fine is a lot of money for the cleaner on Adult Minimum but nothing to the CEO on $400k.
An answer is to change the law to make fines income proportional - this is not at all original. Summary Courts Martial often fine military malefactors something like "one week's pay" - that's $800 for a private but $3000 for a Colonel.
Another is that some people won't / don't /can't pay them - a young friend of one of my kids racked up over $10k for no warrant / after 10pm on Restricted / continuous loss of traction (i.e. a driving hoon) and could never pay it, so ended up with 200 hours 'community service' a few months' weekends picking up roadside rubbish

Not sure what the answer is, I guess fines will make some people take notice

Yes, later on I posted make it scaleable to Income, but then it all starts to be complex.

As to not paying them tough bickies. Id make it that the IRD deducts, as it does for Child Support from salary/benefit. If I was poor, a 100 bucks will hurt. If I was on the average salary $1000 will hurt. No applying for a payment scheme, IRD whips it out next pay, your broke. Too bad. No donut that would require a law change, but if it doesnt hurt today, i.e. next payday, it doesnt hurt. A few years back a boy racer was on the news. racked up $30,000 of fines, laughed at it. $10 a week. Maybe he wouldn't if the IRD took $600 a week from his weekly pay.

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#2549026 24-Aug-2020 19:41

In France it is a 135 euro fine for not wearing a mask in any indoor public place

concordnz

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#2549046 24-Aug-2020 20:23

tdgeek:
concordnz: @vexxboy The fact that you "never go over the speed limit" - proves that fines work (when enforced) - sadly the Police are "missing in action" with their legal responsibility to enforce the Law around Covid.

They have the powers & tools - they are simply 'asleep at the wheel'. - their lack of action is 50% response for the willingness of people to flout the rules (no obvious concequences)

If they stepped up & did their jobs - we would have far better compliance.

Agree, but I'm not aware of the legalities of new fines for flouters. I recall early on they had NO power, so turned up, gave a "warning" and drove off. I think that was both here and AUS

Perhaps the Good Dr - Dr Ashley Bloomfield - Needs to specify the punishment for flouting, in a health Order.
I suggest the 1st offence = removal of left testicle. (Or equlivant)
2nd offence = removal of right one (or equalivant)

That would solve the problem of them breeding in the future & future generations average IQ should finally start to rise.

(It's only right a medical crime had a medical solution right) :)

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#2549059 24-Aug-2020 20:43

concordnz:

Perhaps the Good Dr - Dr Ashley Bloomfield - Needs to specify the punishment for flouting, in a health Order.
I suggest the 1st offence = removal of left testicle. (Or equlivant)
2nd offence = removal of right one (or equalivant)

That would solve the problem of them breeding in the future & future generations average IQ should finally start to rise.

(It's only right a medical crime had a medical solution right) :)

Back here in a sensible thread :-) From where was at least.

On a serious note, I dunno what legal possibilities there are to get tough on punishment. Instant fines, etc. No payment terms.

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#2549076 24-Aug-2020 21:08

kingdragonfly:
Handle9: What is the point of these endless political stories? If you've got something to say about them then I get it but just spamming the thread seems pointless.

In a perfect world, public health experts would dictate how we'd get out of this pandemic, and everyone from presidents and prime ministers to school principles to church leaders to business chamber chief executives would defer to the experts.

If you know of a mystical, harmonious valley, gently guided from a lamasery where COVID-19 decisions are made purely on reason, without politics, I'd like to know about it.

Not all politics are bad. Russians insane vaccination regime, China's literally dragging quarantine breakers out of their homes or even one of Trump's touted treatments may all be the right decisions.

So for better or worse, you can't take the politics out of the pandemics.

The "Spanish flu" is called the "Spanish Flu" because everyone but Spanish politicians denied its existence.

Politics continue to be one of the biggest threats facing the global campaign to eradicate malaria.

We are repeating history again.

I agree that politics are inseparable from the pandemic. If you have something to say about a story then say it otherwise it's just meaningless spam.

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#2549146 25-Aug-2020 07:03

Lots of traffic on the motorway today on the way into the office - I think Aucklanders have just given up.

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#2549149 25-Aug-2020 07:10

covid re-infection with a second different strain, though had 'milder' 'symptoms'

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12359217

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#2549152 25-Aug-2020 07:16

AKL - no test result after 10 days. don't laugh at USA too hard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300090216/coronavirus-managed-isolation-workers-wait-10-days-still-no-test-results

GV27

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#2549154 25-Aug-2020 07:18

Ardern says they have tested almost all of the border workers, quarantine workers and those working at the ports and have not found the origin of the outbreak.

She said they have also been using genome sequencing and still haven't been able to find it.

So this is less than ideal. Worth noting that is just saying that the border workers etc have been tested once. Regular testing is still yet to start but happening soon, apparently.

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#2549155 25-Aug-2020 07:20

GV27:

Lots of traffic on the motorway today on the way into the office - I think Aucklanders have just given up.

Thats a pity. Rock and a hard place. Lockdown more or for longer, people dont comply, give up on the lockdown and hope that enough stay safe, and both ways the virus has reasonable access to new hosts. In Sweden, compared to Norway, businesses suffered more despite low levels of lockdown, so even that isnt an easy economic fix up your way. I feel that the outbreak up there will be contained, it will just be a long slow process, perhaps. Hope not

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#2549158 25-Aug-2020 07:32

Batman:
covid re-infection with a second different strain, though had 'milder' 'symptoms'

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm

Hmmm, that's not good. There was some theories that like the flu bug, for the foreseeable future we may never be able to get rid of it.

It may be a permanent "boomer remover," or perhaps a strain will mutate into a less deadly strain, and become the prevalent one, and render the deadly one obsolete.

After all, a virus that kills the host is not a successful virus.

WHO: Q&A: Influenza and COVID-19 - similarities and differences

"Firstly, COVID-19 and influenza viruses have a similar disease presentation. That is, they both cause respiratory disease, which presents as a wide range of illness from asymptomatic or mild through to severe disease and death.

Secondly, both viruses are transmitted by contact, droplets and fomites. As a result, the same public health measures, such as hand hygiene and good respiratory etiquette (coughing into your elbow or into a tissue and immediately disposing of the tissue), are important actions all can take to prevent infection."

Reuters: More infectious coronavirus mutation may be 'a good thing', says disease expert

"An increasingly common mutation of the novel coronavirus found in Europe, North America and parts of Asia may be more infectious but appears less deadly, according to a prominent infectious diseases doctor.

Paul Tambyah, senior consultant at the National University of Singapore and president-elect of the International Society of Infectious Diseases, said evidence suggests the proliferation of the D614G mutation in some parts of the world has coincided with a drop in death rates, suggesting it is less lethal.

“Maybe that’s a good thing to have a virus that is more infectious but less deadly,” Tambyah told Reuters.

Tambyah said most viruses tend to become less virulent as they mutate.

“It is in the virus’ interest to infect more people but not to kill them because a virus depends on the host for food and for shelter,” he said.

Scientists discovered the mutation as early as February and it has circulated in Europe and the Americas, the World Health Organization said. The WHO has also said there is no evidence the mutation has led to more severe disease"

kiwikurt

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#2549211 25-Aug-2020 08:09

Batman:
AKL - no test result after 10 days. don't laugh at USA too hard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300090216/coronavirus-managed-isolation-workers-wait-10-days-still-no-test-results

Yeah that's less than ideal. I know that the test will have already been run and if positive they'd be notified much quicker.

I had a test when we were in level 1 at a CBAC and it took 7 days to find out the result. It unfortunately required a fair bit of follow-up and emailing. Eventually on day 7 I got through to a Public Health nurse who gave me my result. She checked in the system and my number was correct so couldn't understand why an automatic SMS hadn't been pushed out.

concordnz

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#2549217 25-Aug-2020 08:34

kingdragonfly:
Batman:
covid re-infection with a second different strain, though had 'milder' 'symptoms'

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm

Hmmm, that's not good. There was some theories that like the flu bug, for the foreseeable future we may never be able to get rid of it.

It may be a permanent "boomer remover," or perhaps a strain will mutate into a less deadly strain, and become the prevalent one, and render the deadly one obsolete.

After all, a virus that kills the host is not a successful virus.

WHO: Q&A: Influenza and COVID-19 - similarities and differences

"Firstly, COVID-19 and influenza viruses have a similar disease presentation. That is, they both cause respiratory disease, which presents as a wide range of illness from asymptomatic or mild through to severe disease and death.

Secondly, both viruses are transmitted by contact, droplets and fomites. As a result, the same public health measures, such as hand hygiene and good respiratory etiquette (coughing into your elbow or into a tissue and immediately disposing of the tissue), are important actions all can take to prevent infection."

Reuters: More infectious coronavirus mutation may be 'a good thing', says disease expert

"An increasingly common mutation of the novel coronavirus found in Europe, North America and parts of Asia may be more infectious but appears less deadly, according to a prominent infectious diseases doctor.

Paul Tambyah, senior consultant at the National University of Singapore and president-elect of the International Society of Infectious Diseases, said evidence suggests the proliferation of the D614G mutation in some parts of the world has coincided with a drop in death rates, suggesting it is less lethal.

“Maybe that’s a good thing to have a virus that is more infectious but less deadly,” Tambyah told Reuters.

Tambyah said most viruses tend to become less virulent as they mutate.

“It is in the virus’ interest to infect more people but not to kill them because a virus depends on the host for food and for shelter,” he said.

Scientists discovered the mutation as early as February and it has circulated in Europe and the Americas, the World Health Organization said. The WHO has also said there is no evidence the mutation has led to more severe disease"

A virus does NOT have a BRAIN or think or choose.
(In spite of the POTUS suggesting it was out smarting them)

Mutations are RANDOM & may or may not help the virus.
NONE of these mutations are by choice, they are ALL by accident. - Darwinism applys - if they help the virus - those progeny have greater chance of spread.
If they HINDER the virus - those progeny have less chance of spreading.

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