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GV27
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  #2549218 25-Aug-2020 08:35
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tdgeek:

 

Thats a pity. Rock and a hard place. Lockdown more or for longer, people dont comply, give up on the lockdown and hope that enough stay safe,  and both ways the virus has reasonable access to new hosts. In Sweden, compared to Norway, businesses suffered more despite low levels of lockdown, so even that isnt an easy economic fix up your way. I feel that the outbreak up there will be contained, it will just be a long slow process, perhaps. Hope not

 

 

There's multiple factors. Lockdown fatigue/sheer pig-headedness is a thing, but in a city as big as Auckland, there's pockets of the community that public health messaging doesn't reach. For some people day to day living is such a stressful and terrifying thing that there's no time for the bigger picture. And while it may be a small % of the population, in terms of absolute numbers, it's probably a healthy reservoir of potential transmission - and usually among the most financially-strained and time-poor, who can't afford to spend hours waiting for a test or the time to go to a GP, etc. 

 

So I understand the weekend thing - sure, there's a group of people who absolutely know better but they think they're invincible or being treated like pawns by socialist communist totalitarian 5G lizard people - but there's also a huge number of people who just won't understand or won't be able to execute even if they did. 

 

 


 
 
 

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tdgeek
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  #2549221 25-Aug-2020 08:47
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GV27:

 

 

 

There's multiple factors. Lockdown fatigue/sheer pig-headedness is a thing, but in a city as big as Auckland, there's pockets of the community that public health messaging doesn't reach. For some people day to day living is such a stressful and terrifying thing that there's no time for the bigger picture. And while it may be a small % of the population, in terms of absolute numbers, it's probably a healthy reservoir of potential transmission - and usually among the most financially-strained and time-poor, who can't afford to spend hours waiting for a test or the time to go to a GP, etc. 

 

So I understand the weekend thing - sure, there's a group of people who absolutely know better but they think they're invincible or being treated like pawns by socialist communist totalitarian 5G lizard people - but there's also a huge number of people who just won't understand or won't be able to execute even if they did. 

 

 

 

 

Agree. So that leaves Level 4 as the proven solution, but that won't happen. Level 3 will drop to Level 2 Sunday, and we will potter on fixing 5 infections, allowing 2 more to produce, and in time, perhaps months, it will be sorted.


DS248
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  #2549283 25-Aug-2020 10:54
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Ethical concerns now being raised about the Oxford University vaccine.  Has used cell lines from an electively aborted fetus.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-25/sydney-archbishop-questions-ethics-of-potential-covid-vaccine/12591286




Batman

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  #2549288 25-Aug-2020 11:06
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DS248:

 

Ethical concerns now being raised about the Oxford University vaccine.  Has used cell lines from an electively aborted fetus.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-25/sydney-archbishop-questions-ethics-of-potential-covid-vaccine/12591286

 

 

Probably not the only vaccine doing that I'd say. Which will likely give ammunition to antivaxxers (though I'm quite sure they sound like they are likely to be also 'pro choice' but I don't want to speculate)

 

Reminds me of a Hong Kong TV series in the 80/90s where people would clone themselves and kill off their clone to get the liver and kidneys to match perfectly.


Handsomedan
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  #2549290 25-Aug-2020 11:08
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Batman:

 

I'm not surprised that one day people would clone themselves and kill off their clone to get the liver and kidneys to match perfectly.

 

Isn't there a movie about that? 





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Handsome Dan needs to stop adding three dots to every sentence...

 

Handsome Dan does not currently have a side hustle as the mascot for Yale 

 

 

 

*Gladly accepting donations...


Batman

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  #2549297 25-Aug-2020 11:09
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Handsomedan:

 

Batman:

 

I'm not surprised that one day people would clone themselves and kill off their clone to get the liver and kidneys to match perfectly.

 

Isn't there a movie about that? 

 

 

yes I updated it - I watched a TV series in the 80s/90s where they did that.

 

do you think humans would actually do that? technology knows no boundaries it seems


tdgeek
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  #2549298 25-Aug-2020 11:11
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Someone has got Covid-19 for the second time in Hong Kong. Does that mean a vaccine would also be less effective? Or can the antibodies created by the vaccine be "better" or is it that the mutations mean a past infection's antibodies are weak for a mutated later on, infection?




Batman

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  #2549305 25-Aug-2020 11:17
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tdgeek:

 

Someone has got Covid-19 for the second time in Hong Kong. Does that mean a vaccine would also be less effective? Or can the antibodies created by the vaccine be "better" or is it that the mutations mean a past infection's antibodies are weak for a mutated later on, infection?

 

 

we don't know yet


concordnz
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  #2549314 25-Aug-2020 11:35
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tdgeek:

Someone has got Covid-19 for the second time in Hong Kong. Does that mean a vaccine would also be less effective? Or can the antibodies created by the vaccine be "better" or is it that the mutations mean a past infection's antibodies are weak for a mutated later on, infection?



We do know,
The answer is "sometimes" the vaccine can be better (it depends on what receptors it reacts to.
If these stay the same = the vaccine is better.
If these have changed due to the mutation = vaccine & prior infection immunity is less effective.

Do we know how the virus is going to mutate = no, (it's random)

vexxxboy
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  #2549383 25-Aug-2020 12:08
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tdgeek:

 

Someone has got Covid-19 for the second time in Hong Kong. Does that mean a vaccine would also be less effective? Or can the antibodies created by the vaccine be "better" or is it that the mutations mean a past infection's antibodies are weak for a mutated later on, infection?

 

 

not sure why this is big news , China had already found the same thing months ago, they found after people were released from hospital with a negative test , weeks later they tested positive again but showed no symptoms and no one they came in contact with fell sick. 





Common sense is not as common as you think.


frankv
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  #2549421 25-Aug-2020 13:11
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concordnz:
kingdragonfly:

 

After all, a virus that kills the host is not a successful virus.

Tambyah said most viruses tend to become less virulent as they mutate.

“It is in the virus’ interest to infect more people but not to kill them because a virus depends on the host for food and for shelter,” he said.



A virus does NOT have a BRAIN or think or choose.
(In spite of the POTUS suggesting it was out smarting them)

Mutations are RANDOM & may or may not help the virus.
NONE of these mutations are by choice, they are ALL by accident. - Darwinism applys - if they help the virus - those progeny have greater chance of spread.
If they HINDER the virus - those progeny have less chance of spreading.

 

I've quoted only the bits of the previous quote that I believe are relevant to your reply.

 

You don't need a brain to choose. A simple mechanism or process with an input and an output can do that (e.g. a float switch can choose to turn on or off a pump depending on water level). Natural selection is the mechanism by which better genes are chosen. Thinking without a brain is also possible, depending on your definition of "think" and "brain". e.g. computers & AI. But none of the above suggests that a virus is thinking or even choosing, although perhaps in some places it would have been better to use the words "viral disease" or "virus population" rather than "virus". And it is perhaps useful to think of the "virus population" as a single organism, in the same way that swarm intelligence applies to colonies of social insects. A "virus population" can mutate, and, through natural selection, better become better at surviving.

 

A virus can be successful if it kills the host, so long as (a) it reproduces before it kills it, and (b) its progeny transmits to new hosts. If the process of infecting more people kills the current host, then it is the "virus population's" interest to kill the current host as collateral damage to the reproduction or transmission processes.

 

 


Fred99
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  #2549441 25-Aug-2020 13:51
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vexxxboy:

 

tdgeek:

 

Someone has got Covid-19 for the second time in Hong Kong. Does that mean a vaccine would also be less effective? Or can the antibodies created by the vaccine be "better" or is it that the mutations mean a past infection's antibodies are weak for a mutated later on, infection?

 

 

not sure why this is big news , China had already found the same thing months ago, they found after people were released from hospital with a negative test , weeks later they tested positive again but showed no symptoms and no one they came in contact with fell sick. 

 

 

Significant here is that they know with a high degree of certainty that he was infected a second time, because they have the genomic sequence of the virus both times - and they don't match.

 

There's not much beyond that from which to draw any conclusions:

 

ie - he was infected again because the virus mutated? - probably not, it's mutating all the time, not functional, if this was a functional mutation affecting immune response, then reinfection would probably be common.  That this means immunity doesn't last? - also possibly not what they're seeing, they detected the second strain/infection when he was asymptomatic, immunity continues if antibodies aren't present, memory T-cells detect recognised antigens from an infection and stimulate production of antibodies, the infection is stopped before you get noticeably sick - but you could still test positive. 


Scotdownunder
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  #2549536 25-Aug-2020 15:19
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My non-expert take on the Hong Kong reinfection is potentially positive.  Person reinfected by mutated strain still had immune response so mutations will still be suppressed by future vaccines.  Long way to go to know for certain.


kingdragonfly
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  #2549563 25-Aug-2020 16:06
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Woo Hoo! I'm rich! You can all **** yourselves!

---------------

United Nations
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Geektastic
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  #2549589 25-Aug-2020 16:26
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DS248:

 

Ethical concerns now being raised about the Oxford University vaccine.  Has used cell lines from an electively aborted fetus.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-25/sydney-archbishop-questions-ethics-of-potential-covid-vaccine/12591286

 

 

 

 

Not the kind of thing that would concern me for a femtosecond if it actually works.






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