2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Mad Scientist
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#2434239 7-Mar-2020 14:46

frankv:

Sideface:
Remember - it's the 0.1% that kills you. 😕

And that bacteria can reproduce (double) every 20 minutes or so. So in an hour that .1% is .8%, 2 hours is 6.4%, 3 hours is 25.6%, 3 hours 40 minutes is back to 100%.

first the virus is not bacteria.

but for bacteria, the doubling is in best conditions. after a good dose of bleach the bacteria won't be reproducing like that, but there's always that black sheep that survives and stays alive for a bit longer.

in terms of viruses the only way they reproduce is by using host cell as a reproduction factory.

in terms of infectious things this is the formula

severity of disease = pathogen virulence X dose divided by (/) immunity

in terms of covid19

virulence very high

immunity healthy people are higher, not healthy pretty low and there's always someone whose B and T cells have the coincidental right combination that makes them immune to something, even HIV, even having never met the thing.

dose - that's what the protective measures are trying to make as low as possible

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PolicyGuy

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#2434320 7-Mar-2020 18:19

According to https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-07/coronavirus-infects-melbourne-doctor/12023438, apart from an amazing and appalling lack of judgement from an Aussie GP

"[COVID-19] screening clinics at the Royal Melbourne Hospital, the Alfred, and Austin opened this morning, with another to open later today at Box Hill"

I haven't seen anything yet that indicates we're getting ready for similar screening clinics?

Edit: formatting

kingdragonfly

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#2434321 7-Mar-2020 18:19

Viruses and Bacteria: What's the difference and who cares anyway? - Plain and Simple

kingdragonfly

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#2434322 7-Mar-2020 18:27

Where Do New Viruses Come From?

Rikkitic

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#2434324 7-Mar-2020 18:37

I do know what the fundamental differences are between bacteria and viruses. My question about germs was actually about other people's understanding of the term. If a disinfectant product says it is effective against 'germs', does that mean it works for both bacteria and viruses, or is the term being misused out of ignorance? The term 'germ' seems somewhat imprecise, but it does in fact include both.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

kingdragonfly

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#2434326 7-Mar-2020 18:47

Why new diseases keep appearing in China

Vox

And why COVID-19 was bound to happen. Spoiler: government encouraged wet markets

Batman

Mad Scientist
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#2434327 7-Mar-2020 18:49

Rikkitic:

I do know what the fundamental differences are between bacteria and viruses. My question about germs was actually about other people's understanding of the term. If a disinfectant product says it is effective against 'germs', does that mean it works for both bacteria and viruses, or is the term being misused out of ignorance? The term 'germ' seems somewhat imprecise, but it does in fact include both.

My understanding is yes upon contact to bacteria and viruses the integrity of their capsules are compromised.

Fine print. There may be virus that doesn't contact your disinfectant. Maybe they were flying around in the aerosol expelled to the air. Maybe they were on the spit in the tissue. Maybe the spit was very thick and the spray was too thin. Maybe it got aerosolized or spilled right after your wiping. But upon contact of the stuff on the capsule yes it's bye bye.

edit: here's the recommended list of chemicals https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/05/health/epa-disinfectants-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

mattwnz

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#2434332 7-Mar-2020 19:05

PolicyGuy:

According to https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-07/coronavirus-infects-melbourne-doctor/12023438, apart from an amazing and appalling lack of judgement from an Aussie GP

"[COVID-19] screening clinics at the Royal Melbourne Hospital, the Alfred, and Austin opened this morning, with another to open later today at Box Hill"

I haven't seen anything yet that indicates we're getting ready for similar screening clinics?

Edit: formatting

I think what is happening in Oz could be about 2-4 weeks ahead of what could happen in NZ. We should be learning from what is going on over there, to make sure the negatives don't occur here. WHO wants all countries to try and contain and eliminate this, and not let it spread. So many people still seem to think that this is just another flu and it isn't that bad, without looking at the numbers, and how a relatively large percentage of older and people with chronic and acute illnesses can be affected badly by this. China appears to have managed to get it under control, by making economic sacrifices, which do also affect the rest of the world. But the way they have done it may not be popular in NZ.

mattwnz

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#2434333 7-Mar-2020 19:11

Rikkitic:

I had to do shopping yesterday as we were out of some essentials. In Hastings everything appeared fairly normal for a Friday. It was busy, but not crazy. Also normal at the pet shop and the petrol station I frequent. New World was fairly busy and most shopping carts, including my own, were full to the brim. My excuse is I don't do shopping very often. The rest may have just been usual Friday shopping. Only the hand sanitizer shelf was (nearly) empty, but everything else appeared normal. Plenty of toilet paper, even both of my favourite brands. Not a mask in sight. All in all, just another ordinary day in town.

A small local super market I went to still had some toilet rolls on the shelves but they were 6 for $5. Not cheap. In Oz they are apparently restricting the number people can buy.

I was also told by someone who had visited a hardware store, that someone was was in there trying to buy all the face masks from them, but they were told they could only buy one, so they refused to sell them all of their masks. These are the type needed by tradespeaple for installing insulation etc. Apparently they were not happy at all that they were only allowed to buy one.

kingdragonfly

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#2434337 7-Mar-2020 19:24

Rikkitic: I do know what the fundamental differences are between bacteria and viruses. My question about germs was actually about other people's understanding of the term. If a disinfectant product says it is effective against 'germs', does that mean it works for both bacteria and viruses, or is the term being misused out of ignorance? The term 'germ' seems somewhat imprecise, but it does in fact include both.

I wasn't targeting you.

Regarding claims like "Acme kitchen cleaner kills 99.9% of germs", when dealing with viruses, how do you kill something that's not alive, in the traditional sense?

I try not to be pedantic, but viruses don't die either. Many are not "viable" for more than a few hours outside a host organism unless they're in a friendly environment.

So a good goal is to either remove them, down the drain, before they reach a friendly environment inside your lungs. Good old soap and water. If you're sharing soap, there's plenty of viable viruses on it, but not to worry: just rinse your soap. Lukewarm water doesn't make you cleaner either. You're more likely to wash longer with warm water than cold water.

Or make a virus unviable, make the environment unfriendly to the virus. The coronavirus has an envelope structure which alcohol, and other dangerous chemicals, can dissolve.

Again it's worth repeating, taking a sanitizer internally, like drinking,doesn't work. The virus coronavirus resides in your lungs. Or more precisely, drinking something that kills you works, because the virus didn't kill you, the sanitizer did.

MadEngineer

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#2434368 7-Mar-2020 23:05

(Viruses vs cells aside ...) This simple experiment should demonstrate how something as simple as soap can help kill the virus as it rips open cells

https://littlebinsforlittlehands.com/strawberry-dna-science/

Also if you paid attention in school you'd know how soap binds stuff to water to wash it away.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

frankv

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#2434373 7-Mar-2020 23:56

Rikkitic: Also normal at the pet shop

No one buying in bulk then? No shortage of, say, rabbits? Goats? Chickens? Guinea pigs? Goldfish?

Sidestep

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#2434387 8-Mar-2020 07:34

From yesterday - Trump's semi-coherent live stream from the CDC in Atlanta.

It seems they've given up on containment.
Trump repeats several times 'it's no worse than the flu' and repeats that they'll just wait for outbreaks.

Notable takeaways-

7:20 The obsequious Dr Redfield of the CDC thanks him profusely for his decisive decisions and leadership.
Looks at trump with puppy dog eyes the rest of the livestream. That's the end of his credibility.

Trump:
19:27 It's (mortality) less than 1%
19:40 CNN is fake news.
20:19 The death rate could be 1/10 of 1%
20:42 Look at the job numbers, we had a tremendous increase in job numbers.
30:05 Anyone that needs a test - gets a test. The tests are beautiful.
30:10 the tests are perfect
40:12 My Uncle Dr John Trump was a supergenius who taught at MIT for a record number of years.
I like this stuff I really get it.
Every one of these Doctors said 'how do you know so much about this?'
Maybe I have a natural ability.
Maybe I should have done this instead of running for President.
I understand that whole world – I love that whole world.
41:35 The (Washington State) Governor is a snake, he's a snake
42:02 If we came up with a cure today, and tomorrow everything is gone, he'd say 'he did a terrible job'
47:27 The difference is that we're being proactive – we're going out and looking for spots.
Nobody else is doing that..
I don't even know if I agree with that
We could find those areas just by sitting back and waiting. But we're trying to find out before.. before we would by waiting.
We're the only country in that sense that's proactive.

MileHighKiwi

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#2434389 8-Mar-2020 08:11

43 staff at North Shore Hospital are in self isolation after coming into contact with Coronovirus patients. Hospitals at "breaking point" according to union. From Stuff today. It's happening folks. Another two weeks and I'm certain I'll be working from home fultime.

My wife is quite unwell (hopefully just a normal virus!) and due to fly to AKL tomorrow for 2 days work. She is thinking of canceling the trip, doesnt want to be in an airport/plane looking visibly sick, and she was staying with a colleague and her family, doesnt want to get them sick either.

Wise decision? What would you do?

Fred99

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#2434392 8-Mar-2020 08:27

MileHighKiwi: What would you do?

Cancel.

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