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wellygary
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  #2555746 2-Sep-2020 15:44
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freitasm:

 

Sure, but I still think the conference going ahead is a dick move. And that's my opinion.

 

 

They are being stupid, but the rules do allow it... 


freitasm
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  #2555748 2-Sep-2020 15:45
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wellygary:

 

freitasm:

 

Sure, but I still think the conference going ahead is a dick move. And that's my opinion.

 

 

They are being stupid, but the rules do allow it... 

 

 

Two weeks later "Oh, who would have imagined this could be another Queenstown cluster?"





 

 

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mattwnz
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  #2555749 2-Sep-2020 15:48
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This came up as a breaking story in red for me. But is is just a very bad story, and shouldn't be their main story. . They seem to think that if someone has 5 different tests they shouldn't need to do the full 14 days isolation since their last contact with someone who is infected. 14 days isolation has always been needed and they aren't being treated any differently. Some of those tests such as a saliva test, which the story even says is a 'trial', so may not be accurate as it is not proven. Likewise no test is 100% accurate, and the PM has always said a test is not an alternative to 14 days in in isolation since the last contact with someone who was infected. I wish the media would do research and not publish this type of story, as the process being followed is correct, if they do their research and watch all the 1pm standups. It shouldn't be news to them that everyone must do 14 days isolation, and it will restart if someone comes into contact with someone who is infected.  There are other things this media company could be investigating surrounding the virus. 

 

 

 

Covid 19 coronavirus: Auckland man's extended quarantine stay; despite 5 negative tests

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12360824 


mattwnz
16850 posts

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  #2555757 2-Sep-2020 16:02
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wellygary:

 

freitasm:

 

Tell me the conference organisers aren't being dicks here:

 

 

 

 

In this case Hipkins is plain wrong, (according to the published rules) - whether it should be 10  is another matter...

 

The limit of10 only apply to social gatherings....
Conferences (even in Auckland) are not social gatherings

 

https://covid19.govt.nz/everyday-life/gatherings-and-events/

 

Gatherings and events at Alert Level 2 for the Auckland region
Public and event venues

 

Visits to public and event venues are not social gatherings. This means public and event venues can have up to 100 customers within any defined space.

 

Public and event venues include:

 

  • restaurants and cafes
  • swimming pools and gyms
  • libraries, and museums
  • cinemas, theatres, stadiums, concert venues
  • conference venues
  • casinos.

You should keep 1 metre physical distance from people you don’t know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am surprised that conferences can go ahead, because you often get a lot of people that know one another congregating and socializing. No much different to churches, which can't have more than 10 people. We already know that conferences can be superspreader events as I recall there was a conference down south that was a big bubble in the first wave.  Again I think people who make these rules may have overthought things. Or maybe they just didn't think about how some of these events may be held.

 

The thing is the virus can't tell the difference if someone is going to a conference or a church.


ockel
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  #2555764 2-Sep-2020 16:09
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freitasm:

 

Sure, but I still think the conference going ahead is a dick move. And that's my opinion.

 

 

And I think taking 10 weeks to implement a regime that regularly tests frontline border staff is a dick move.  Its taken 2 months to test every border worker twice (albeit twice since August 14th) but to determine the frequency by September 5th for a policy announced on June 23rd is totally dick. 

 

 


mattwnz
16850 posts

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  #2555768 2-Sep-2020 16:14
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cshwone:

 

 

 

On 1 News last night when they covered the story it was the use of the word "official" that jumped out to me.  Church leaders denying any responsibility for what their parishioners did "unofficially"

 

 

 

 

I hope the media delve more into this, especially as most of the new cases appear to be around this. If their have been unofficial meetup, then anyone at those need to know that they need to isolate for 14 days and get tested.

 

It is about getting people isolated and tested that may have come in contact with an infected case, rather than blame people.


ockel
1780 posts

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  #2555769 2-Sep-2020 16:14
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mattwnz:

 

I am surprised that conferences can go ahead, because you often get a lot of people that know one another congregating and socializing. No much different to churches, which can't have more than 10 people. We already know that conferences can be superspreader events as I recall there was a conference down south that was a big bubble in the first wave.  Again I think people who make these rules may have overthought things. Or maybe they just didn't think about how some of these events may be held.

 

The thing is the virus can't tell the difference if someone is going to a conference or a church.

 

 

But its a "tricky" virus - so surely it can tell the difference and its tricky enough to target those mass gatherings. 

 

Its not a tricky virus.  Its an organism that we dont fully understand but its not tricky - its taking advantage of fallible human behaviour to undertake its basic task of replicating and propagating.  And policy-on-the-hoof perpetuates its ability to spread.


 
 
 
 


mattwnz
16850 posts

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  #2555770 2-Sep-2020 16:16
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ockel:

 

freitasm:

 

Sure, but I still think the conference going ahead is a dick move. And that's my opinion.

 

 

And I think taking 10 weeks to implement a regime that regularly tests frontline border staff is a dick move.  Its taken 2 months to test every border worker twice (albeit twice since August 14th) but to determine the frequency by September 5th for a policy announced on June 23rd is totally dick. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just hope that this testing isn't a one off, and it will be kept up. Complacency is largely the reason we are now in this current situation, and I suspect things will slip.


GV27
2389 posts

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  #2555771 2-Sep-2020 16:16
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freitasm:

 

Sure, but I still think the conference going ahead is a dick move. And that's my opinion.

 

 

Perhaps the people setting the rules have only ever been to the mild fly-in, fly-out affairs where there's no after-match function and no one drinks too much or cavorts in a morally questionable matter - which would be pretty much every conference or function I've ever been to. I mean.... why else would you go? They should be accorded with the same level of risk as orgies or stag dos. 


GV27
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  #2555776 2-Sep-2020 16:18
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mattwnz:

 

I just hope that this testing isn't a one off, and it will be kept up. Complacency is largely the reason we are now in this current situation, and I suspect things will slip.

 

 

You can't exclude the possibility someone in MIQ will return a negative day 12 test and we'll just get unlucky, because it inevitably will happen at some point.

 

I would not be surprised if this is what happened this time around, to be honest, but there were so many question marks that we can't be sure. We need to get to the point where that's the only way it could possibly happen - it sounds like they're making good progress with plugging some of those gaps. 


freitasm
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  #2555791 2-Sep-2020 16:36
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@ockel:

 

freitasm:

 

Sure, but I still think the conference going ahead is a dick move. And that's my opinion.

 

 

And I think taking 10 weeks to implement a regime that regularly tests frontline border staff is a dick move.  Its taken 2 months to test every border worker twice (albeit twice since August 14th) but to determine the frequency by September 5th for a policy announced on June 23rd is totally dick. 

 

 

Nope. I would apply Hanlon's razor here ("Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.")

 

The testing not being done is stupidity. The conference going ahead is intentional.





 

 

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Fred99
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  #2555792 2-Sep-2020 16:36
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Australia is officially in recession:

 

 

Deloitte Access Economics senior economist Sheraan Underwood noted that only a handful of countries had seen smaller GDP falls than Australia, and they were generally ones where the virus was even more well-contained.

 

"The underlying equation is simple," he observed.

 

 

 

"The greater the success against the virus, the greater the success in protecting economies against the pandemic."

 

 

 

 


wellygary
4999 posts

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  #2555798 2-Sep-2020 16:47
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Fred99:

 

Australia is officially in recession:

 

 

This is 2nd quarter, so up to 30 June, so it covers the first nation widerestrictions, the current VIC shutdown will ensure next quarter aint too flash either...

 

NZ gets its lumps in just over two weeks,

 

https://www.stats.govt.nz/release-calendar

17 Sep Gross domestic product: June 2020 quarter

 

 


FineWine
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  #2555799 2-Sep-2020 16:49
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mattwnz:

 

cshwone:

 

On 1 News last night when they covered the story it was the use of the word "official" that jumped out to me.  Church leaders denying any responsibility for what their parishioners did "unofficially"

 

I hope the media delve more into this, especially as most of the new cases appear to be around this. If their have been unofficial meetup, then anyone at those need to know that they need to isolate for 14 days and get tested.

 

It is about getting people isolated and tested that may have come in contact with an infected case, rather than blame people.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong here.

 

Don't this group of church goers also belong to the same ethnicity and that back in their own island country they had a huge measles outbreak where the local 'Wise Women' or shaman were more believed than health authorities and that they tried and/or put more belief into home preventatives and remedies ??

 

My point here is the authorities (MoH) have an uphill battle against cultural and religious beliefs and this also applies to their church ministers (Catholic/Anglican/Mormon/etc) who though they have a lot of influence also struggle and in some incidences do not want to rock the boat.

 

And of course we have the 'over-stayers', of any culture or group, who are being hidden.

 

Faith and culture are very powerful influences.





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ockel
1780 posts

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  #2555800 2-Sep-2020 16:56
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Fred99:

 

Australia is officially in recession:

 

 

Deloitte Access Economics senior economist Sheraan Underwood noted that only a handful of countries had seen smaller GDP falls than Australia, and they were generally ones where the virus was even more well-contained.

 

"The underlying equation is simple," he observed.

 

 

"The greater the success against the virus, the greater the success in protecting economies against the pandemic."

 

 

 

 

 

So on the basis that NZ did a better job of containing than Australia then we'd expect to see a smaller GDP fall than Australia?  

 

And just to be clear - the timing of lockdown in Australa and New Zealand wasnt much different in Q1.  And NZ seemed to be better contained than Australia.  In Q1 the GDP growth rate (same quarter over the previous year) was Australia +1.4%, NZ -0.3%.

 

 


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