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GV27
2390 posts

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  #2560598 9-Sep-2020 08:08
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Story now up on RNZ:

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/425580/covid-19-student-who-tested-positive-an-undisclosed-contact-hipkins-says

 

A student at St Dominic's Catholic College in Auckland has tested positive for Covid-19, and has been linked to the sub-cluster.

 

The student was last at school on Friday but left early after starting to feel unwell.

 

Hipkins said in this case it appears that it was a close contact of the sub-cluster that had not been previously disclosed.

 

The authorities are now looking into whether that was on purpose.

 

"That's one of the things that the investigation is looking at now and it will include looking at whether there was a deliberate decision not to disclose, or whether it was simply an oversight," Hipkins said.

 

He said this sub-cluster has been a challenge to work with as some members do not understand the seriousness of the situation.

 

Bolding mine. I don't know how infectious you can be before you're symptomatic enough to want to leave school sick, but this is a concerning development. 


Fred99
11151 posts

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  #2560602 9-Sep-2020 08:28
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GV27:

 

Story now up on RNZ:

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/425580/covid-19-student-who-tested-positive-an-undisclosed-contact-hipkins-says

 

A student at St Dominic's Catholic College in Auckland has tested positive for Covid-19, and has been linked to the sub-cluster.

 

The student was last at school on Friday but left early after starting to feel unwell.

 

Hipkins said in this case it appears that it was a close contact of the sub-cluster that had not been previously disclosed.

 

The authorities are now looking into whether that was on purpose.

 

"That's one of the things that the investigation is looking at now and it will include looking at whether there was a deliberate decision not to disclose, or whether it was simply an oversight," Hipkins said.

 

He said this sub-cluster has been a challenge to work with as some members do not understand the seriousness of the situation.

 

Bolding mine. I don't know how infectious you can be before you're symptomatic enough to want to leave school sick, but this is a concerning development. 

 

 

You can be very infectious, and the root cause of this shouldn't have been unexpected.

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=161&topicid=265423&page_no=940#2550188

 

There's potential for these people to become defensive of their beliefs, continue to reject science, claim that "religious persecution" is happening, and become a very big problem.  Even the need to "keep a close eye" on the cluster because of their lunatic extremist Christian beliefs will result in kickback.  At worst they're quite capable of deliberately spreading and claiming that they're working to God's will, but they're still capable of causing chaos by passive non-cooperation.

 

The first church involved in the cluster was different, the minister advocated for a scientific approach and cooperation.  Has anyone seen any similar statements from the "Evangelical" church leaders?

 

 


 
 
 
 


GV27
2390 posts

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  #2560624 9-Sep-2020 09:03
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I'm reluctant to start ascribing the same motivations to everyone in that religious group, but the bigger it gets, the more likely it is that eventually some people who don't feel inclined to follow instructions or pay ball would inevitably become spreaders. That would be the same in any population. But yes, I fear less cooperation is a more likely outcome, especially in the face of public scorn.


Rikkitic
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  #2560627 9-Sep-2020 09:11
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I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


Rikkitic
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  #2560629 9-Sep-2020 09:12
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He said this sub-cluster has been a challenge to work with as some members do not understand the seriousness of the situation.

 

"There are certainly some within the cluster that perhaps don't accept or haven't previously accepted the science involved here."

 

They are now being educated on the gravity of the situation, he said.

 

"It would certainly appear that they were skeptical at the beginning," Hipkins said. "I think that a lot of work has been done with them since then."

 

"At the end of the day, any system we have around Covid-19 is going to rely on people doing the right thing, so we are working very closely with this community."

 

He said that all testing indicates, so far, that it is still a relatively small cluster, but the thought that people aren't disclosing contacts and there could be other, unknown, cases out in the community is concerning.

 

"It's the thought that keeps me awake every night at the moment. That's not just with this case, it's with every case."

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


Fred99
11151 posts

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  #2560633 9-Sep-2020 09:23
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GV27:

 

I'm reluctant to start ascribing the same motivations to everyone in that religious group, but the bigger it gets, the more likely it is that eventually some people who don't feel inclined to follow instructions or pay ball would inevitably become spreaders. That would be the same in any population. But yes, I fear less cooperation is a more likely outcome, especially in the face of public scorn.

 

 

Yeah - that's why some statement from "leaders" is needed. That might not be so easy either.  My SO has an uncle - leader in an evangelical movement.  He's thoroughly convinced that C-19 is a hoax / plot by atheists and communists to take over the world.  He's been waiting all his life for a holy battle like this, and it's the first thing he'll bring up in conversation.  He truly thinks he's doing god's work - saving souls by effectively advocating for a lethal virus.  Better hope characters like him aren't involved in a cluster.


sittingduckz
619 posts

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  #2560680 9-Sep-2020 09:37
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ockel:

 

How is it that the Counties Manukau Steelers have a game against Tasman on Saturday night with limited crowd numbers (apparently 4 bubbles of 100??!!).  How is this possible when Mass Gatherings are limited to 10 people unless its a funeral or tangi?

 

Auckland will still be at level 2.5 - and you can bet your bottom dollar that Aucklanders will be attending.

 

Why can people go to see Auckland rugby at level 2.5 when I'm not allowed to watch my kids play other sport at Level 2?

 

 

 

 

Don't you know there a some thing that are more important than human life:

 

  • Sport
  • Rugby
  • Church
  • Business
  • Rugby
  • Rugby
  • Church
  • Business
  •  
  •  
  •  ...
  • Life




I'm not a complete idiot, I still have some parts missing.


 
 
 
 


Rikkitic
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  #2560682 9-Sep-2020 09:42
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Fred99:

 

Yeah - that's why some statement from "leaders" is needed. That might not be so easy either.  My SO has an uncle - leader in an evangelical movement.  He's thoroughly convinced that C-19 is a hoax / plot by atheists and communists to take over the world.  He's been waiting all his life for a holy battle like this, and it's the first thing he'll bring up in conversation.  He truly thinks he's doing god's work - saving souls by effectively advocating for a lethal virus.  Better hope characters like him aren't involved in a cluster.

 

 

Same with QAnon. People seem to genuinely believe they have privileged access to some huge cosmic conspiracy secret and only they can save the world. 

 

There seems to be a real human need for superstition. 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


Batman

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  #2560683 9-Sep-2020 09:48
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Rikkitic:

 

He said this sub-cluster has been a challenge to work with as some members do not understand the seriousness of the situation.

 

"There are certainly some within the cluster that perhaps don't accept or haven't previously accepted the science involved here."

 

They are now being educated on the gravity of the situation, he said.

 

"It would certainly appear that they were skeptical at the beginning," Hipkins said. "I think that a lot of work has been done with them since then."

 

"At the end of the day, any system we have around Covid-19 is going to rely on people doing the right thing, so we are working very closely with this community."

 

He said that all testing indicates, so far, that it is still a relatively small cluster, but the thought that people aren't disclosing contacts and there could be other, unknown, cases out in the community is concerning.

 

"It's the thought that keeps me awake every night at the moment. That's not just with this case, it's with every case."

 

 

 

 

omg





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


frankv
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  #2560684 9-Sep-2020 09:50
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dejadeadnz:

 

frankv:

 

Your argument could equally be applied to many aspects of life in NZ (excluding food, water, and housing). How much are you going to reduce people's quality of life for not much gain? For some people, watching (or participating in) sports is an important part of their life. Next, you'll need to define "spectator sports". Is Saturday morning schoolkid rugby a spectator sport? How about white water kayaking? Lawn bowls?

 

 

I've got news for you: I (and I would venture many other people) don't care about the "need" (there is simply no "need" in the strictest moral sense of the word) to watch sport, subject to the following proviso. If the legitimately elected government decide to ban sports in reliance upon serious and proper expert advice that banning of such related gatherings will be beneficial to public health outcomes that broadly outweigh the perceived or actual gain of these events , that will be the end of the matter for me. The law is the law and I will follow it. And I expect the police to be prepared to enforce it, to the point of arresting all breachers and to use proportionate force (including deadly force where justified) to arrest them, just as they are empowered to do so in respect of any other law that they enforce. If you, I or anybody don't like the decisions the government's making, there's an election coming up or you can resort to the courts.

 

Facile and open-ended arguments about freedoms or some kind of imaginary god given right to do X, Y and Z or to make one's living a particular way aren't relevant within the NZ constitutional, legal and political framework. Freedoms can be subject to reasonable limitations that are demonstrably justified in a liberal and democratic society under the NZBORA.

 

 

Que'? I didn't use the word "need" at all. Nor the word freedom. Nor did I mention anything about breaking the law, nor anything else that you so forcefully argue about. So I'm not quite sure why you're forcefully arguing.

 

I absolutely agree with the banning of large gatherings of people, including audiences at professional or amateur sports, where it's justified for the purposes of public health. I just question (a) the practicality of banning all spectator sports, and (b) the value of banning spectators from sports where there are few (say, less than a dozen) spectators who can maintain reasonable social distancing.

 

 


ezbee
357 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2560688 9-Sep-2020 10:08
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Evangelicals, 
So if we go back to level 3 we know why this time.
If your business folds because of this send the bill to them. 
When I go out on my shopping trip soon , I bet its them loading up on disaster supplies.
You can't face the rapture without toilet paper can you.

 

This is so disappointing after the earlier 4-5 Pacific Churches showed how to care for your flock, and community you live in.

 

I would also ask them to look at this community and ask themselves who is closer to teachings of Jesus , people who claim to be of Jesus or people with actions like this.

 

Quietly without fanfare, helping the community every day , a lesson here ? 

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/voices/audio/2018762645/essential-services-sikh-temple-volunteers-step-up

 

 


1101
2318 posts

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  #2560689 9-Sep-2020 10:15
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concordnz:
New Zealand hasn't got the 'stomach' to rewrite the Bill of Rights to something 'functional' in the face of a pandemic it did not consider.

 

and thats why Covid rules , laws , fines will continue to be challenged in court .
And why things can only be suggested and not compulsory (eg testing )

 

 


frankv
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  #2560690 9-Sep-2020 10:18
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dejadeadnz:

 

The other thing as well is that the benefits of professional sports tend to accrue to the governing bodies, employed/related staff, and players. I'd be very slow to give disproportionate weight to these people's views relative to the welfare of many, many other people.

 

 

I agree that the *financial* benefits of professional sports are as you say. But my point is that the welfare, as in quality of life, of many, many other people is impinged on when they don't get to watch it. After all, all those people are prepared to pay in total a large amount of money to watch sports. They wouldn't do that if it didn't have some perceived value. So this value needs to be taken into account when making decisions.

 

 


Batman

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  #2560693 9-Sep-2020 10:20
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ezbee:

 

Evangelicals, 
So if we go back to level 3 we know why this time.
If your business folds because of this send the bill to them. 
When I go out on my shopping trip soon , I bet its them loading up on disaster supplies.
You can't face the rapture without toilet paper can you.

 

This is so disappointing after the earlier 4-5 Pacific Churches showed how to care for your flock, and community you live in.

 

I would also ask them to look at this community and ask themselves who is closer to teachings of Jesus , people who claim to be of Jesus or people with actions like this.

 

Quietly without fanfare, helping the community every day , a lesson here ? 

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/voices/audio/2018762645/essential-services-sikh-temple-volunteers-step-up

 

 

 

 

My sincere apologies to the PI /church group. 

 

Evangelicals ... smh





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


MileHighKiwi
687 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2560735 9-Sep-2020 10:24
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dejadeadnz:

 

I expect the police to be prepared to enforce it, to the point of arresting all breachers and to use deadly force where justified to arrest them.

 

 

Wow. Killing people who breach lockdown restrictions seems a bit extreme. If you go down that road the death toll will be significantly higher than those who died from with Covid in this country.

 

Can you even arrest someone who is dead?

 

Hopefully Andrew Coster doesn't support this idea. 


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