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mattwnz
16826 posts

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  #2561222 9-Sep-2020 17:50
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Batman:

 

 

 

i think we all know by now that managed isolation in a 1st world and 3rd world country - the result is the same. the virus jumps regardless.

 

 

 

 

To a degree, although I would trusts NZs more than most countries, especially as we have now learnt where holes could be. Australias MIQ now seems to be a lot better since their leak. I am guessing the trick is to make someone responsible if there is a leak.


nzkiwiman
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  #2561365 9-Sep-2020 21:00
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So let me get today's events straight

 

We have church people who broke the law by having a meeting during lockdown

 

We have church people who didn't isolate after getting a test, who then infected others

 

We have a child from the church group going to school and then testing positive

 

We have people from the church group who aren't advising of all close contacts

 

We have a bus driver (from the church?) who has been driving while infected

 

and something about a supermarket being closed 

 

 

 

What the ...

 

And we are allowing these people to freely leave Auckland 


 
 
 
 


dejadeadnz
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  #2561367 9-Sep-2020 21:06
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Arrest every single member of this stupid church and compulsorily detain/quarantine them inside an army camp with armed guards for a minimum of 21 days.

 

 


freitasm
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  #2561387 9-Sep-2020 21:39
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dejadeadnz:

 

Arrest every single member of this stupid church and compulsorily detain/quarantine them inside an army camp with armed guards for a minimum of 21 days.

 

 

From the NZ Herald: "The church is run as a charity"

 

Take the status out of them.





 

 

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Oblivian
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  #2561390 9-Sep-2020 21:43
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 nzkiwiman:

 

So let me get today's events straight

 

We have church people who broke the law by having a meeting during lockdown

 

unconfirmed, but understood 'police were called to an address and group of people advised to disband immediately'

 

We have church people who didn't isolate after getting a test, who then infected others

 

Appears that way

 

We have a child from the church group going to school and then testing positive

 

Linked to the group, yes. Possibly unidentified close contact who went symptomatic Friday

 

We have people from the church group who aren't advising of all close contacts

 

Under investigation to the reason for that. Be it purpose or accidental

 

We have a bus driver (from the church?) who has been driving while infected

 

- Didn't know he was. Mainly found after pleading for those in the group to get tested (or re-rested) due to the number spike who are clearly linked

 

and something about a supermarket being closed 

 

- Yep. Still people spreading the love when they should know better.

 

And the Police have warned them if what may come (presumably they will be trolling the legislation pages to see if they can for any reason.. ) https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12363614 

 

 

Forty-three cases of the coronavirus are now linked to the church, with six new cases reported by director general of health Dr Ashley Bloomfield today.

 

A sub-cluster of 22 people within that total number have been linked to a funeral on September 2 and visits to the household of the bereaved.


freitasm
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  #2561391 9-Sep-2020 21:45
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Reality is, keep Auckland locked down and away from others until they know these covidiots aren't passing around the country.





 

 

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Oblivian
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  #2561395 9-Sep-2020 21:49
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Yeah I can see status quo come Mondays meeting if this keeps up.


 
 
 
 


freitasm
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  #2561396 9-Sep-2020 21:51
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It is easy. We spent so much time, money, mental health to get us to this point. If a few covidiots are going to spoil to the other five million then it needs to be done - otherwise everything was for nothing.





 

 

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dejadeadnz
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  #2561403 9-Sep-2020 22:11
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freitasm:

 

From the NZ Herald: "The church is run as a charity"

 

Take the status out of them.

 

 

Even better, do what the Israelis do with terrorists' homes: bulldoze their church if they own it.

 

 


mattwnz
16826 posts

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  #2561425 10-Sep-2020 00:32
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freitasm:

 

Reality is, keep Auckland locked down and away from others until they know these covidiots aren't passing around the country.

 

 

 

 

Yep, they should never have opened the Auckland border IMO, because they didn't have it ring fenced. 99.99% of Aucklanders worked hard, but they appear to  have been let know by a small number that didn't, or weren't educated about what they were supposed to do. Now the entire country is potentially at risk due to the Auckland border being reopened.

 


They problem is that the government / MOH  can now blame those people for not doing what they should have. But as I posted prior to the levels being relaxed, we can't trust everyone will do the right thing, and this has proven to be the case. It is so frustrating that the government / MOH didn't learn from the first wave, and they knew that we couldn't trust some people to do the right thing. That is the whole reason why all incoming travelers now have to go into MIQ, because we couldn't trust that they would all self isolate. WE seem to now only be able to trust diplomats to do this.  IMO this was avoidable by perhaps keeping level 3  for 1-2 weeks longer, to pick up these cases and keeping Aucklands border closed for a few more weeks on top of this, as belt and braces . Yes there is a cost to that extension, but it isn't level 4 which is far harder, and it minimized the chance of not having the cluster ring fenced. Now there are some red flags showing. 

 

The next few days will be pivotal IMO, as to how this now goes, and whether case numbers increase more. This is now essentially two clusters, and a new funeral 'sub cluster' and it is not the tale of the first cluster. If they grow, and not all close contacts are being contact or even identified, I suspect we could end up in a level 3 lockdown, possibly as soon as next week.

 

IMO to prevent further damage, they should close the Auckland border quickly, because we are now up-to 2 weeks behind the virus transmission, and we don't know how many people potentially have the virus and haven't been identified as close contacts, who may have traveled out of Auckland. The problem with contact tracing it can also rely on a good memory, as to who we have been in contact with, so it is always possible someone will be missed. 


1101
2311 posts

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  #2561526 10-Sep-2020 08:59
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burn down the church.  Arrest them all. Send in the army .
Please people, get a grip .

 

That mob mentality will have exactly the wrong outcome, it will drive up distrust & force them into hiding and they then wont follow instructions (testing , isolation).

 

and double standards :
you can sit in a bus with many others(the worst place to be) ,go to supermarket (with possibly hundreds there), send your kids to school with hundreds of others, hang out on crowded beaches, but cant go to church (en masse).

 

Church is the all & everything for these people . Its more important than the govt or their neighbours, and GOD decides who gets sick & who doesnt .
You cant just say NO , NOT ALLOWED to go to church en masse . Because that has not worked in the past 2000years .

 

And name calling lowers the tone of the argument to that of a 7 year old.


Fred99
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  #2561541 10-Sep-2020 09:28
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dejadeadnz:

 

freitasm:

 

From the NZ Herald: "The church is run as a charity"

 

Take the status out of them.

 

 

Even better, do what the Israelis do with terrorists' homes: bulldoze their church if they own it.

 

 

We need a "holy war" that would bring on like a hole in the head.

 

Better to just remove charity status for all organisations except where "charity" can be defined.  Building a megachurch for your "followers" or offering support conditional on the receiver meeting some moral/religious standard isn't "charity" - it's a transaction.  

 

 


alexx
700 posts

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  #2561569 10-Sep-2020 10:06
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Lua, who is the chairman of the Pacific Leadership Forum's Pacific Response Coordination Team, said this spread [of disinformation] was especially rife among those with links to conservative evangelical or pentecostal churches in the United States.

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/425669/churches-with-links-to-the-us-being-blamed-for-spreading-covid-19-misinformation 

 

If US evangelicals are involved, we're in level 2 until Christmas, or until a vaccine comes.

 

 

 

 





#include <standard.disclaimer>


GV27
2388 posts

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  #2561577 10-Sep-2020 10:23
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alexx:

 

Lua, who is the chairman of the Pacific Leadership Forum's Pacific Response Coordination Team, said this spread [of disinformation] was especially rife among those with links to conservative evangelical or pentecostal churches in the United States.

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/425669/churches-with-links-to-the-us-being-blamed-for-spreading-covid-19-misinformation 

 

If US evangelicals are involved, we're in level 2 until Christmas, or until a vaccine comes.

 

 

I'll take level 2 at Xmas over the massive damage that travel restrictions for Aucklanders would do to the regions. Imagine a Coromandel summer without Aucklanders... I mean it does actually sound quite appealing in many ways but less so for the owners of takeaway bars and accommodation providers. 


freitasm
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  #2561601 10-Sep-2020 10:50
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Ah, think of the economy. Never mind spreading this thing.




 

 

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