2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2563132 12-Sep-2020 23:47

As a side note, it is interesting that in the USA, the large black lives matter protests did not cause an uptick in covid-19 cases.

Some reasons suspected for this:

Covid-19 spreads better indoors, than the outdoor areas that protests are held.
The number of people that chose to stay home to avoid the inconvenience (incl closed business) or risk of personal safety due to the protests exceeded the number of protesters.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/06/30/black-lives-matter-protests-did-not-cause-an-uptick-in-covid-19-cases

Also note that protests being declared illegal riots, curfews at night and the likes hasn't stopped them from continuing for an extended period.

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mattwnz

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#2563135 13-Sep-2020 00:13

Scott3:

As a side note, it is interesting that in the USA, the large black lives matter protests did not cause an uptick in covid-19 cases.

Some reasons suspected for this:

Covid-19 spreads better indoors, than the outdoor areas that protests are held.
The number of people that chose to stay home to avoid the inconvenience (incl closed business) or risk of personal safety due to the protests exceeded the number of protesters.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/06/30/black-lives-matter-protests-did-not-cause-an-uptick-in-covid-19-cases

Also note that protests being declared illegal riots, curfews at night and the likes hasn't stopped them from continuing for an extended period.

Apparently the protests in Australia did cause cases, and is partly being blamed for their outbreak. But it is inside spaces that seem to spread it the most. Eg Lift, buses, schools, churches, homes, workplaces etc, have all been contributing places of the spread on New Zealands second major outbreak.

Also this story is a concern, and shows research shows that contact tracing maybe days behind the virus transmission, so may not be as effective as it could be.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300105935/covid19-most-coronavirus-transmission-isnt-being-caught-in-time

In Australia, apparently their contact tracing involves Faxing between facilities. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/sep/08/salesforce-to-digitise-victorias-covid-contact-tracing-after-federal-criticism I hope out contact tracing earlier in the year, or now, doesn't still use Faxes!

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#2563136 13-Sep-2020 00:40

Scott3:

MikeB4:

I feel the Police need to tread carefully. De-escalation is probably seen as a better way to deal with it. If they took a firm hand a broke up the demonstration of a small number of rent-a-crowd the next time they may have to deal with tens of thousands.

This. The Cops are not asleep at the wheel.

Breaking up Significant protests is hazardous to all involved. And extremely resource intensive for the police. Also in the midst of a global pandemic, significant interpersonal contact is involved, placing the officers at risk.

As we know from overseas experience, the mere action of turning up with police in riot gear, or throwing a canister or tear gas can turn a largely peaceful gathering in to a full on riot. Or a succession of riots.

Would be unfortunate to see the above if by the police simply observing, the protesters will disperse peacefully of their own accord in an hour or two.

Via intelligence gathering the police they know about these events in advanced. If you watched the TVNZ one news you will see that there are a good number of police officers walking beside the protest watching and waiting.

A past weekend I traveled along Quay street when one such protest was on. Two of the police vans (the big VW ones with lots of officers in the frount, and cells in the back) were sitting waiting.

My assumption is that the police's approach is to observe for people that instigate violence or property damage, ready to swoop in quickly remove those few individuals from the area, allowing the remainder of the protest to proceed peacefully.

Also have to be aware that a lot of this kind of stuff is bating for a reaction. (Illegal protests & people refusing to wear masks on trains on the first day it was mandatory). You could be sure if the police pulled resources from all over the north island, and arrested all 1000 protesters that it would be front page of very newspaper, lead article on the 6pm news, and discussed for days by current affairs programming.

By not giving a reaction, the protesters are denied the Attention & Notoriety they desire.

In Victoria they have taken to breaking up (generally smaller) protests. Police cannot afford to loose control of the situation, so it requires an epic show of force, In Aussie that including guns in holsters & officers on horseback: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8497071/Police-horseback-break-mob-protesters-outside-Melbourne-COVID-tower.html

Aussie seems to have law against inciting illegal behaviour, allowing them to pre-emotively arrest protest leaders. Could be something we could consider here, but again gains them more attention and notoriety: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/police-break-down-door-of-conspiracist-accused-of-inciting-an-anti-lockdown-protest-20200904-p55sd7.html

Police have followed a policy of education rather than enforcement. This has allowed the situation to get out of hand by not enforcing the law previously.

New Zealand has criminal conspiracy laws. Whether they apply in this case I am unsure @dejadeadnz

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#2563161 13-Sep-2020 09:11

Scott3:

In Victoria they have taken to breaking up (generally smaller) protests. Police cannot afford to loose control of the situation, so it requires an epic show of force, In Aussie that including guns in holsters & officers on horseback: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8497071/Police-horseback-break-mob-protesters-outside-Melbourne-COVID-tower.html

All Police in Australia are armed, and Police horses are a normal part of policing in a number of Australian cities incl Melbourne and Sydney.

Fred99

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#2563165 13-Sep-2020 09:28

Handle9:

Police have followed a policy of education rather than enforcement. This has allowed the situation to get out of hand by not enforcing the law previously.

New Zealand has criminal conspiracy laws. Whether they apply in this case I am unsure @dejadeadnz

Yep - and it'll continue to get worse if it's not stopped.

It shouldn't even be an option up for consideration - to expect that a group of people so wildly delusional will suddenly become rational.

Much of the stuff they "believe" is well and truly on the spectrum of typical delusions displayed by people with psychosis. Put enough of them together in one place, and you get a madhouse.

JLR has had a relapse. He's seriously unwell. Do whatever is needed to sort this out, but they can't be allowed to continue to assemble the way they are doing - as it's a danger to others as well as themselves.

Of course they could be right - and the government, police, doctors, along with 99.xx% of the population are conspiring to inject them with 5G, invented a fake virus so they could persecute them etc etc. /s

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#2563167 13-Sep-2020 09:32

Oxford University to resume vaccine trial after pause

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54132066

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#2563168 13-Sep-2020 09:45

Fred99:

JLR has had a relapse. He's seriously unwell.

Possible. Given he is totally unemployable after the election, another possibility is that he sees this as a last gasp glimmer of hope to grab three more years on the taxpayers ticket.

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#2563240 13-Sep-2020 11:11

As for the "anti-lockdown" and "anti-mask" protests in Auckland, no surprise they would turn political. Reports that people linked to alt-right, racist views are pushing things are slowly coming in.

Those covidiots are really "useful idiots". I hope the government is keeping an eye on these people behind the scenes.

*sigh*

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#2563241 13-Sep-2020 11:17

Also, please folks, think before spreading disinformation:

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dejadeadnz

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#2563256 13-Sep-2020 12:44

Handle9:

New Zealand has criminal conspiracy laws. Whether they apply in this case I am unsure @dejadeadnz

Depends and way too complicated for your average non-detective cop and the Police Prosecution. They can get these people (or at least the leaders) under the Health Act and that's at least a start. Right now it's just a free for all.

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#2563257 13-Sep-2020 13:05

medical hack of the century?

researchers suggest facemasks mimic (live virus) vaccination

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12364442

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#2563258 13-Sep-2020 13:14

mattwnz:

Also this story is a concern, and shows research shows that contact tracing maybe days behind the virus transmission, so may not be as effective as it could be.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300105935/covid19-most-coronavirus-transmission-isnt-being-caught-in-time

i think it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you apply the trace and isolate principle to infectious diseases that become infectious after showing symptoms

to an infectious disease that become infectious before showing symptoms, it ain't gonna fly.

if it worked we wouldn't have a pandemic that keeps growing

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#2563259 13-Sep-2020 13:16

back to the whether cops should use force - this happens in Australia. things escalate very quickly and perhaps you don't want to go there - https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6190247388001

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#2563260 13-Sep-2020 13:21

Well that's awkward.

Health worker at the Quarantine Facility

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12364482

ezbee

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#2563264 13-Sep-2020 13:54

Oblivian:

Well that's awkward.

Health worker at the Quarantine Facility

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12364482

""
The worker is a health care worker who tested negative last week, but tested positive this week in the first week of weekly routine testing of Jet Park workers
""

This validates weekly testing, thank goodness we are finally doing this.
To be expected eventually as the protective equipment provides a statistical level of protection, Mask is N95 , PPE is not a full biohazard space suit.
Roll the dice enough times and all that.

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