Covid19 as it applies to GZ Members

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#2772659 6-Sep-2021 09:09

Received my Day 12 results a short time ago. Negative as expected, but always nice to see it confirmed. Free from self-isolation on Wednesday. :)

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Oblivian

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#2772850 6-Sep-2021 12:04

So it turns out since getting my 2nd jab ( in 4 -CHC). A lot of centres have decided the sit down 1:1 filling out of appointment cards is not safe and thus have not been handing them out - or perhaps only completing them in a single hit

I had assumed this was due to the CIR, and going digital via the app perhaps - but nope. I can see comments from people asking online and the PR reply is some centres are not doing them in advanced alert levels.

So if you don't have one already, may be a request to do on 2nd (if out of level) or later on down the track if you decide you want a wallet-card proof.

cruxis

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#2773444 7-Sep-2021 10:54

For all the geekzone tradies, sports people, gamers, or just people who do not want a sore shoulder. You can get the jab in the leg (vastus lateralis).

Got mine done today, they even allowed me to pin(jab/inject) it myself. Although I am on TRT so I am experienced. I pin weekly, which I explained to the vaccinators.

Pro Tip: Wear shorts if you going use this pin site.

Oblivian

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#2774789 8-Sep-2021 19:34

Plane tracking log for today is about 3x the length of previous already. Lots of GA getting back out there, and 400 odd flights re-booted by ANZ.

jonathan18

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#2775100 9-Sep-2021 09:44

I'm interested in (evidence-based!) feedback on the following situation...

A family member is 86 and living in a retirement village (in a serviced apartment, ie in the same building as a but a separate wing to the rest home). She has DHB-funded carers support her in the morning and evening, and outside of L4/3 has had a private carer do a few hours a week during the daytime (essentially for social reasons, eg company, outings).

We're looking at bringing the private carer back now we're at L2, but have also just discovered she's not planning on getting jabbed. Noting this, and that her main job is in a rest home, a bit of a red flag has gone off with us.

What are people's reasoned thoughts/advice on the sensibility (or not) of having an unvaccinated rest home worker looking after one's family member (who has had both doses) in a rest home-like environment? I get that the exact nature of the situation (eg, specific health risks) can make the ultimate difference, but interested in overarching feedback, eg the relative risk associated with having carers vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

Thanks in advance.

Fred99

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#2775117 9-Sep-2021 10:08

jonathan18:

What are people's reasoned thoughts/advice on the sensibility (or not) of having an unvaccinated rest home worker looking after one's family member (who has had both doses) in a rest home-like environment? I get that the exact nature of the situation (eg, specific health risks) can make the ultimate difference, but interested in overarching feedback, eg the relative risk associated with having carers vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

Thanks in advance.

That's easy.

Absolutely no way. They should be fired and banned from any rest home site.
They are xx% more likely to transmit the virus to vulnerable residents. The exact value of xx may not be known, but it's very significant.

That the employee is doing it for selfish reasons ("my freedumb to choose") when they're putting at risk vulnerable others for whom their position is being a "carer" isn't tenable, on any grounds.

I'd write a letter to the CEO of the rest home, making them aware that you shift blame for possible consequences of their decision to allow unvaccinated workers right back on them.

jonathan18

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#2775134 9-Sep-2021 10:30

Fred99:

That's easy.

Absolutely no way. They should be fired and banned from any rest home site.
They are xx% more likely to transmit the virus to vulnerable residents. The exact value of xx may not be known, but it's very significant.

That the employee is doing it for selfish reasons ("my freedumb to choose") when they're putting at risk vulnerable others for whom their position is being a "carer" isn't tenable, on any grounds.

I'd write a letter to the CEO of the rest home, making them aware that you shift blame for possible consequences of their decision to allow unvaccinated workers right back on them.

Her arrangements with her main employer are not our business, however (noting it's a different rest home to where my relative is) - it's up to them to manage any requirements, eg if they require their frontline workers to be vaccinated (kinda amazed it's not). (I'm also going to follow up with the DHB-funded caring organisation to see what their own policy is re vaccinations.)

We contract this person privately to support my relative, so our call is whether we re-employ her accepting she's not willing to be vaccinated even though her main job requires her to work with numerous vulnerable people in an environment in which Covid could spread through like wildfire, or politely explain that we can't do this unless she's vaccinated. My personal preference is the latter, despite the benefits of having her in my relative's life.

freitasm

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#2775144 9-Sep-2021 10:37

jonathan18:

We contract this person privately to support my relative, so our call is whether we re-employ her accepting she's not willing to be vaccinated even though her main job requires her to work with numerous vulnerable people in an environment in which Covid could spread through like wildfire, or politely explain that we can't do this unless she's vaccinated. My personal preference is the latter, despite the benefits of having her in my relative's life.

I think you already had your answer in the previous post, but will do it again: No.

She's a risk you don't want to take.

Dynamic

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#2775146 9-Sep-2021 10:38

jonathan18:

We contract this person privately to support my relative, so our call is whether we re-employ her accepting she's not willing to be vaccinated even though her main job requires her to work with numerous vulnerable people in an environment in which Covid could spread through like wildfire, or politely explain that we can't do this unless she's vaccinated. My personal preference is the latter, despite the benefits of having her in my relative's life.

My understanding is that the jab does not stop you getting the virus, it just reduces its severity for you. I believe you can still pass it on, though I have done no research on this. The country needs 80% or better of the population to be vaccinated to reduce the sting that comes with a high hospitalisation and mortality rate.

Question: After a little research, are you highly confident that the carer being vaccinated reduces the risk to your relative?

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Fred99

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#2775163 9-Sep-2021 10:52

Dynamic:

Question: After a little research, are you highly confident that the carer being vaccinated reduces the risk to your relative?

It does. It does not eliminate risk.

Arguments that it doesn't reduce risk are pushed by anti-vaxxers, so if using Google, be very careful what you read and how you interpret it.

jonathan18

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#2775167 9-Sep-2021 10:58

Dynamic:

My understanding is that the jab does not stop you getting the virus, it just reduces its severity for you. I believe you can still pass it on, though I have done no research on this.

This is getting at why I raised the question: pre-Delta, I understand being vaccinated did indeed significantly reduce the chance of catching Covid and of passing it on, whereas the viral load of an individual who has caught the Deltra strain can apparently be similar whether or not they have been vaccinated (but the load possibly doesn't stay as high for as long).

As such, I don't think the answer to my question is quite so black and white as when it appeared vaccination was indeed a pretty good barrier to prevent transmission, noting this is at the micro level of considering the impact on/risk to my relative as opposed to the wider considerations of a high-level vaccination take-up to manage spread...

Edit, but yeah I get the point that vaccination reduces risk, and that is key... A pity, but also having this conversation with the carer may also provide an opportunity to get her to re-think her stance (or hopefully she'll be pushed into it by her main employer).

Fred99

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#2775179 9-Sep-2021 11:13

jonathan18:

Dynamic:

My understanding is that the jab does not stop you getting the virus, it just reduces its severity for you. I believe you can still pass it on, though I have done no research on this.

This is getting at why I raised the question: pre-Delta, I understand being vaccinated did indeed significantly reduce the chance of catching Covid and of passing it on, whereas the viral load of an individual who has caught the Deltra strain can apparently be similar whether or not that they have been vaccinated (but that load possibly doesn't stay as high for so long).

As such, I don't think the answer to my question is quite so black and white as when it appeared vaccination was indeed a pretty good barrier to prevent transmission, noting this is at the micro level of considering the impact on/risk to my relative as opposed to the wider considerations of a high-level vaccination take-up to manage spread...

You're actually a victim of widespread misinformation.

Evidence that some people have shown apparent high viral loads despite being fully vaxxed is not evidence that vaccination is not highly effective against reducing transmission of delta.

High apparent viral loads from PCR tests (based on low CT counts) are not conclusive evidence that those people are more infectious. The test can't discriminate between "dead" and "alive" RNA.

jonathan18

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#2775192 9-Sep-2021 11:32

Fred99:

Evidence that some people have shown apparent high viral loads despite being fully vaxxed is not evidence that vaccination is not highly effective against reducing transmission of delta.

High apparent viral loads from PCR tests (based on low CT counts) are not conclusive evidence that those people are more infectious. The test can't discriminate between "dead" and "alive" RNA.

Useful info that places things in context, thank you, and provides a strong rationale for deciding a particular COA in this case, which is what I was looking for.

Eva888

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#2775200 9-Sep-2021 11:48

jonathan18:
I'm interested in (evidence-based!) feedback on the following situation...

A family member is 86 and living in a retirement village (in a serviced apartment, ie in the same building as a but a separate wing to the rest home). She has DHB-funded carers support her in the morning and evening, and outside of L4/3 has had a private carer do a few hours a week during the daytime (essentially for social reasons, eg company, outings).

We're looking at bringing the private carer back now we're at L2, but have also just discovered she's not planning on getting jabbed. Noting this, and that her main job is in a rest home, a bit of a red flag has gone off with us.

What are people's reasoned thoughts/advice on the sensibility (or not) of having an unvaccinated rest home worker looking after one's family member (who has had both doses) in a rest home-like environment? I get that the exact nature of the situation (eg, specific health risks) can make the ultimate difference, but interested in overarching feedback, eg the relative risk associated with having carers vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

Thanks in advance.

I doubt if it’s quite as simple as it appears and there is no simple answer. There are also cleaners, delivery people, visitors, hairdressers, podiatrists, electricians and others I can’t think of now that come into rest homes. Who is to say they are all vaccinated? These people can also spread covid if infected and even if vaccinated. The vulnerable residents are double vaxed to counter the chance of hospitalisation should they catch it and still there are no guarantees.

I was looking at the Stuff vaccination numbers and approx 26% of Islanders and 15% Maori were vaccinated. Some Pacific people work in these homes or deliver to them. If these workers are fired, is there someone to replace them to keep everything ticking along? I dint know the answer.

In many places in Europe some places of employment require a negative rapid test twice a week from their unvaccinated employees. The cost is born by the employee. Rapid testing kits are available to the public to buy. As far as I know rapid testing kits that give instant results are not available for purchase in NZ and I question this. Why haven’t these been available to buy for situations such as this and to give peace of mind.

Since you can’t hold a person down and force a needle into them, there will always be a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated people and we need to live with this fact and do our best to mitigate the risks to ourselves as best we can since this virus is like Russian roulette and doesn’t differentiate between the vaxed and unvaxxed and for this reason we are all told to wear masks.

blackjack17

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#2775208 9-Sep-2021 12:05

Dynamic:

My understanding is that the jab does not stop you getting the virus, it just reduces its severity for you. I believe you can still pass it on, though I have done no research on this. The country needs 80% or better of the population to be vaccinated to reduce the sting that comes with a high hospitalisation and mortality rate.

Not quite right. What the vaccine does is it allows your body to produce antibodies for the spike protein of the covid virus.

This means that when you are exposed to the virus your body can respond quickly greatly reducing the chance that you will become symptomatic and able to pass on the virus.

If your body is able to eliminate the virus when the virus loading is very low then the chance of passing it on to another person is greatly reduced (but not eliminated).

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