Covid19 as it applies to GZ Members

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Ultimate Geek

#2775214 9-Sep-2021 12:25

How i understand it, might be wrong, is that the viral loading directly affects how bad your symptoms will be and how likely you are to pass the virus on.

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neb

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#2775271 9-Sep-2021 13:05

Eva888: I doubt if it’s quite as simple as it appears and there is no simple answer. There are also cleaners, delivery people, visitors, hairdressers, podiatrists, electricians and others I can’t think of now that come into rest homes. Who is to say they are all vaccinated?

Friend of mine is a gasfitter and to go into a rest home he has to be vaccinated, wear a mask, sanitise, and swap out his outer clothing, to make absolutely sure he's not bringing anything in with him. So strict requirements are both enforceable, and enforced.

Having someone who's chosen to be unvaccinated and put everyone else at risk go into a rest home isn't just a no, it's a hell no.

jonathan18

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#2775895 10-Sep-2021 10:53

neb:

Friend of mine is a gasfitter and to go into a rest home he has to be vaccinated, wear a mask, sanitise, and swap out his outer clothing, to make absolutely sure he's not bringing anything in with him. So strict requirements are both enforceable, and enforced. Having someone who's chosen to be unvaccinated and put everyone else at risk go into a rest home isn't just a no, it's a hell no.

I imagine it's actually easy for a rest home (or any company) to place conditions on entry upon contractors such as electricians, given they are hired to do specific tasks and this can be based on needing to meet specified requirements. As is well-documented, it's far harder for employers to require current employees to be vaccinated, and in a place like a rest home I imagine it's very difficult to provide alternative roles for those unable/unwilling that aren't client-facing. And that's the case here: the care worker apparently isn't required to have a vaccination for her main rest home job due to 'human rights' reasons but is regularly tested.

And, yeah, it's true that we can't necessarily control the vaccination status of others interacting with my relative - eg the DHB-funded care workers; the staff of the village/home - but equally that doesn't mean we shouldn't act to reduce risk in the very areas where we do have control over. And in this case the carer is essentially a private contractor that we are hiring, so we do get to set the terms we're happy with; the problem is others in my family don't seem to see this is being a 'must have'...

Fred99

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#2775899 10-Sep-2021 11:06

jonathan18:

As is well-documented, it's far harder for employers to require current employees to be vaccinated.

That's almost certainly going to change. Crystal clutchers, conspiracy theorists, and trypanophobics are going to get a reality check in the very near future.

At the moment they're given more tolerance and "understanding" than some dick lighting up a smoke in a restaurant.

jonathan18

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#2775901 10-Sep-2021 11:09

Fred99:

jonathan18:

As is well-documented, it's far harder for employers to require current employees to be vaccinated.

That's almost certainly going to change. Crystal clutchers, conspiracy theorists, and trypanophobics are going to get a reality check in the very near future.

At the moment they're given more tolerance and "understanding" than some dick lighting up a smoke in a restaurant.

Totally, and I'm happy with such a move - especially in such vulnerable areas as rest homes it's a no-brainer.

But that ain't the case at the moment, hence why we end up with such dilemmas as what we're dealing with...

Fred99

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#2775904 10-Sep-2021 11:20

jonathan18:

Totally, and I'm happy with such a move - especially in such vulnerable areas as rest homes it's a no-brainer.

But that ain't the case at the moment, hence why we end up with such dilemmas as what we're dealing with...

That's right. Avoiding transmission to - and outbreaks in - rest homes has pretty much been a dismal failure everywhere, despite attempts to lock them down like maximum security prisons in some countries. Because of the nature of Delta, it's going to be an ongoing problem and practical solutions can only reduce risk, not eliminate it.

Handsomedan

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#2775929 10-Sep-2021 11:53

Fred99:

jonathan18:

As is well-documented, it's far harder for employers to require current employees to be vaccinated.

That's almost certainly going to change. Crystal clutchers, conspiracy theorists, and trypanophobics are going to get a reality check in the very near future.

At the moment they're given more tolerance and "understanding" than some dick lighting up a smoke in a restaurant.

I think it's unfair to lump true Trypanophobes in with anti-vaxxers and loons.

A true phobia is both irrational and debilitating. Idiocy is not.

I'm a trypanophobe (as I have mentioned her on GZ many many times). I'm booked in for my vaccine and it's caused sleepless nights and anxiety etc and I still have 3 weeks until my first jab!

I've just got off a phone consult with my doc who is going to prescribe "the good stuff", so I can get through this, but as it turns out, my 14yo is in a worse state than I am (obviously a learned behaviour in conjunction with a bad experience last time he was vaccinated for something).

I'm so over being told "It doesn't hurt", "Its a small needle", "Put on your big-boy pants" etc...I'm also over being lumped in with the naysayers and conspiracy/anti-vax/flat-earth/anti-5G nuts.

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alasta

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#2775933 10-Sep-2021 12:10

Handsomedan:

I'm a trypanophobe (as I have mentioned her on GZ many many times). I'm booked in for my vaccine and it's caused sleepless nights and anxiety etc and I still have 3 weeks until my first jab!

I've just got off a phone consult with my doc who is going to prescribe "the good stuff", so I can get through this, but as it turns out, my 14yo is in a worse state than I am (obviously a learned behaviour in conjunction with a bad experience last time he was vaccinated for something).

I'm so over being told "It doesn't hurt", "Its a small needle", "Put on your big-boy pants" etc...I'm also over being lumped in with the naysayers and conspiracy/anti-vax/flat-earth/anti-5G nuts.

For me the injection felt quite similar to scratching the surface of the skin - the insertion of it wasn't really perceptible. To be honest I was actually quite surprised.

If you were to ask the vaccinator to keep the needle out of your view before and during the procedure, would you be able to fool yourself into thinking that it's just a scratch rather than in injection? Maybe you could even take a blindfold.

The vaccinators are very helpful and supportive and will have had some experience with people who are afraid of needles.

Fred99

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#2775938 10-Sep-2021 12:18

Handsomedan:

I think it's unfair to lump true Trypanophobes in with anti-vaxxers and loons.

From an epidemiological point of view, it's fair enough to lump all together.

I don't know if it helps, but I had a phobia years ago, which is kind of nuts and "irrational". So I finally did something about it - and saw a shrink. An "aha" moment from that was realisation that the phobia wasn't actually irrational, most phobias have a rational basis, snakes, spiders, flying, blood, needles, whatever. Yet everybody had been telling me it was irrational and I thought I was nuts - which only made things worse.

Handsomedan

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#2776030 10-Sep-2021 13:36

alasta:

For me the injection felt quite similar to scratching the surface of the skin - the insertion of it wasn't really perceptible. To be honest I was actually quite surprised.

If you were to ask the vaccinator to keep the needle out of your view before and during the procedure, would you be able to fool yourself into thinking that it's just a scratch rather than in injection? Maybe you could even take a blindfold.

The vaccinators are very helpful and supportive and will have had some experience with people who are afraid of needles.

I should be suitably wasted enough to make it through this, I think...

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freitasm

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#2776048 10-Sep-2021 14:07

For those interested, the bookmyvaccine website has an availability map now: Appointment Availability | Ministry of Health NZ (covid19.health.nz)

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Oblivian

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#2776050 10-Sep-2021 14:10

Heh, wonder if the hackathon dudes were engaged.

neb

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#2776107 10-Sep-2021 15:45

Handsomedan:
I've just got off a phone consult with my doc who is going to prescribe "the good stuff", so I can get through this, but as it turns out, my 14yo is in a worse state than I am (obviously a learned behaviour in conjunction with a bad experience last time he was vaccinated for something).

There are actually a large number of stress-management techniques you can apply that don't require meds. I'm not saying don't use meds, but pointing out that there are lots of alternatives that can be useful either to reinforce the meds or when you don't have any to hand. They vary from person to person and you're best-off exploring what works for you with a psychologist since many of them depend on how suggestible you are. At one end of the scale you've got things like Bach flower remedies which work on highly suggestible people (not meant as an insult but pointing out that you really need to believe in them), and at the other end stuff like progressive relaxation (PMR), invented by the first US doctor to make electrical measurements of muscle activity who used that to come up with a means of relieving the muscle tension that accompanies anxiety, which has the side effect of relieving the anxiety (in somewhat simplified terms).

PMR is useful because you can do it at any time, e.g. while waiting to get jabbed, without any outward signs. Ideally you'd go to a psychologist to have them walk you through it since you need guidance at least the first time, but there will probably also be plenty of Youtube videos that walk you through it - reading about it rarely works, you need active guidance. There are also various biofeedback devices (the same doctor who pioneered PMR was also a pioneer of biofeedback) that can help you monitor your relaxation state, e.g. battery-powered handheld pulse oximeters.

This won't make your fear of needles go away, but it'll help fight the anxiety that accompanies it.

Fred99

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#2776180 10-Sep-2021 19:01

neb:
Handsomedan:

I've just got off a phone consult with my doc who is going to prescribe "the good stuff", so I can get through this, but as it turns out, my 14yo is in a worse state than I am (obviously a learned behaviour in conjunction with a bad experience last time he was vaccinated for something).

There are actually a large number of stress-management techniques you can apply that don't require meds. I'm not saying don't use meds, but pointing out that there are lots of alternatives that can be useful either to reinforce the meds or when you don't have any to hand.

Not disagreeing - but if I was the OP I'd take the meds as the Dr suggests and to hell with it - it's a one-off phobia (needles) not more general / constant anxiety.
They work - brilliantly. Enjoyably too - which has the potential to be a problem if you (think you) need them all the time.

(Not a Dr - and this is not medical advice).

tdgeek

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#2776189 10-Sep-2021 19:15

Handsomedan:

I'm a trypanophobe (as I have mentioned her on GZ many many times). I'm booked in for my vaccine and it's caused sleepless nights and anxiety etc and I still have 3 weeks until my first jab!

I've just got off a phone consult with my doc who is going to prescribe "the good stuff", so I can get through this, but as it turns out, my 14yo is in a worse state than I am (obviously a learned behaviour in conjunction with a bad experience last time he was vaccinated for something).

I'm so over being told "It doesn't hurt", "Its a small needle", "Put on your big-boy pants" etc...I'm also over being lumped in with the naysayers and conspiracy/anti-vax/flat-earth/anti-5G nuts.

If its any consolation, Ive had many jabs. Required by travel, flu jabs, gum jabs at the dentist, the Covid jabs were almost unknown. Look away you probably will say, "ok, you can do it now" Already done. Not saying that to boost you, thats how it was. Look away.

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