Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | ... | 15
Awesome
4859 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 674846 20-Aug-2012 22:27
Send private message

sbiddle:Thales card solution is MIFARE Desfire whereas Snapper use JCOP on all new cards.


Is one better than the other?




Twitter: ajobbins


2402 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 674865 20-Aug-2012 23:23
Send private message

ajobbins:
sbiddle:Thales card solution is MIFARE Desfire whereas Snapper use JCOP on all new cards.


Is one better than the other?


Sometimes it's not which one is technically better, but which one delivers the required results.

I don't think consumers are all too bothered which name is on the card so long as the system is universal and works.

Based on the fact that there is significant $$ to be gained by holding credit in a bank account, I can see this battle being fought long and hard.

To the person who said that the NZTA should run the system.... please use the Northern Gateway Toll road a few times and then let us know if you still feel that way afterwards :)





 
 
 
 


856 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 674886 21-Aug-2012 01:12
Send private message

Replying to a couple of points,

sbiddle: No buses other than those with Snapper now have any hardware installed yet. Why is nobody in the media asking why?


I don't recall seeing Hop systems on NZ Bus buses until the system was practically launched.  Doesn't mean that Ritchies/H&E/etc don't have systems stashed away somewhere in testing.

Dratsab: Interesting given that 2degrees have thrown a lot of effort into intergrating snapper into their NFC enabled phones:
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=85&topicid=101029
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=85&topicid=101567

I'm guessing they're feeling a little disappointed at the way events are unfolding at the moment.


Why should they?  It was a known fact when 2degrees launched that Snapper was not the end solution for Auckland public transport.  Snapper has always read as the "The Government made us do this as an interim" deal, and has always been a second class citizen, Brian Rudman's NZ Herald column has been spot on the money on the mistakes of doing this.  In addition, Auckland Transport made the quite large mistake of even after NZ Bus apparently said "We will never integrate" of lending the future brand and their logos to give credability to the interim solution.

Brisbane's MiFare Classic based Go Card system is (in my personal opinion) far superior to Snapper (including next to real-time data, online top-up then tagging onto a bus 5-10 minutes later would often show updated balance).

The problem will be if Auckland Transport launches Hop 2.0 (unless they are also going to change the name from Hop after this fiasco) without NZ Bus on board, what is going to happen to the many people that will want a Snapper-Hop card and a Thales-Hop card.

Lastly, I see micro-payments/in-store transactions as a small-fries/moot point, by ~2016 pretty much everyone between the ages of 16 and ~40-50 are likely (in my opinion) to have at least one Paywave or Paypass style card (Visa Debit/Mastercard Debit, Credit Card etc), having used the Paypass stuff in Australia a couple of times now, it seem natural and (Westpac, are you listening?) something I'd love to start doing now.

I don't see Snapper surviving in that market for very long with the potential one in nearly every adult wallet reach of the banks & Mastercard/Visa (unless Snapper target that feature at Children, but do Child cards have in-store micropayments enabled?).

28373 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 674908 21-Aug-2012 06:25
Send private message

nigelj: Replying to a couple of points,

sbiddle: No buses other than those with Snapper now have any hardware installed yet. Why is nobody in the media asking why?


I don't recall seeing Hop systems on NZ Bus buses until the system was practically launched.  Doesn't mean that Ritchies/H&E/etc don't have systems stashed away somewhere in testing.



My point is more than AT and Thales are saying "Our system is all complete and ready to go, Snapper are holding us up", when in reality as of a few weeks ago the terminals for these other buses hadn't been even been ordered due to the supplier encountering some of the same issues that Snapper have in making their hardware and software fully compatible.

Which ever way you look at it the project is a farce, and even if Snapper wasn't involved it would still be. Without having all bus operators on board the whole concept of an integrated ticketing solution is just a joke.

The way the system works is also going to be fun to watch. With train exit barriers only at Britomart and an honesty system elsewhere and no plans for heavy handed enforcement (such as Melbourne) it'll be interesting to see what happens with ticket revenue.

6774 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 674916 21-Aug-2012 07:51
Send private message

eXDee: Ha, this makes me thankful that Hamilton has a single unified busit card system, despite some routes being operated by Pavlovich but most being GoBus.

Well, you're lucky there. Here in the BOP, the regional council has deals with a few different bus companies and has a single "BayBus" brand available in most towns here. Yet Tauranga and Rotorua use different cards, both called Smartride but incompatible. I think Whakatane uses the same cards as Tauranga but the website doesn't say one way or the other!

3107 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 674948 21-Aug-2012 09:12
Send private message

freitasm:Bollocks. From the link you posted: 

"In a world first, Thales will be using its near-field communication (NFC) application throughout Auckland Transport’s final smart card ticketing system, HOP, before deploying it globally across all networks and banks." 

Not in use in several cities at all, it seems. And Snapper *IS* working in Wellington. 


Sorry, I misworded that - the "system" I refer to is the backend infrastructure, which will be the same as they've implemented elsewhere.  The endpoints into the system are irrelevant - since apparently the system is intended to be designed so that other vendors can provide the hardware based on a specification.

Personally, based on the specs of the system that New HOP will provide and what Snapper provides now, I cannot wait for New HOP.  Actual real-time topup on buses?  Yay!  Actually usable on trains?  Double yay!  Actually loading monthly passes onto the card?  Triple yay!

For what it's worth, Snapper availability in Auckland has actually been declining, with many retailers that used to offer it now dropping it without warning, leaving passengers with fewer and fewer places to actually top up, especially since they cannot do it on buses.  I also know a few people who are even a bit annoyed by that 10c topup fee, of which the only way to avoid it is to buy a Snapper Feeder - which isn't available at any retailers, and has to be ordered from Snapper.  Especially frustrating though is that Snapper cards in Auckland cannot have any kind of monthly pass - even NZ Bus passes - loaded onto it.  And MicroPayments?  I've even encountered some retailers who say that while they will top up a Snapper/HOP card, they will not allow it as a form of payment.  Ultimately, it's been limited to the point of uselessness here.

nigelj: 
Lastly, I see micro-payments/in-store transactions as a small-fries/moot point, by ~2016 pretty much everyone between the ages of 16 and ~40-50 are likely (in my opinion) to have at least one Paywave or Paypass style card (Visa Debit/Mastercard Debit, Credit Card etc), having used the Paypass stuff in Australia a couple of times now, it seem natural and (Westpac, are you listening?) something I'd love to start doing now.


Westpac has already launched PayPass.  Any MasterCard issued after July 2012 is contactless.

28373 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 674964 21-Aug-2012 09:26
Send private message

The topup charge exist because retailers refuse to do it for free - this money goes to them.

The issue with HOP right now is the end hardware.

 
 
 
 


3107 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 675025 21-Aug-2012 11:12
Send private message

sbiddle: The topup charge exist because retailers refuse to do it for free - this money goes to them.


Agree, but even Britomart charges the topup fee, which is just madness since they are Auckland Transport (I realise it's operated by Veolia on their behalf...) so they really have no excuse.

875 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  # 675030 21-Aug-2012 11:19
Send private message

Kyanar: Agree, but even Britomart charges the topup fee, which is just madness since they are Auckland Transport (I realise it's operated by Veolia on their behalf...) so they really have no excuse.


It gets worse if you are in Wellington, if you top up a snapper card at Snapper's hq, you still get bitten by the top up fee. I was told it is pre programmed into the snapper/EFTPOS machines.  

1139 posts

Uber Geek


  # 675042 21-Aug-2012 11:54
Send private message

insane: 

To the person who said that the NZTA should run the system.... please use the Northern Gateway Toll road a few times and then let us know if you still feel that way afterwards :)




Huh, Whats the issue? I use it alot and it's fine!




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 



1923 posts

Uber Geek


  # 675049 21-Aug-2012 12:10
Send private message

insane:To the person who said that the NZTA should run the system.... please use the Northern Gateway Toll road a few times and then let us know if you still feel that way afterwards :)

Yep, thats a poor excuse for system too.

My real point was there should be some kind of unified system across the country and there was an opportunity for some party (like NZTA) to be in the drivers seat for than and earn some revenue in the process.  (Imagine that a transport system where profits from the revenue stream actually go back into transport funding.)

But instead it looks like we're going to be (eventually) pushed into bank provided solutions, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But in the interim we have to put up with disconnected local and regional solutions. In short we'll be paying to re-invent the wheel (all over the country) when we could, and should, have simply been paying to keep the wheels we've got deliver us more efficiently.

4154 posts

Uber Geek


  # 675061 21-Aug-2012 12:29
Send private message

knoydart: 
It gets worse if you are in Wellington, if you top up a snapper card at Snapper's hq, you still get bitten by the top up fee. I was told it is pre programmed into the snapper/EFTPOS machines.  


Thats not true,
if you use one of the kiosks and EFTPOS its costs you nothing, the Kiosks are at
Snapper HQ  - Level 8, Kordia House, 109-125 Willis Street, Wellington

ASB Sports Centre - 72 Kemp Street, Kilbirnie, Wellington

Wellington City Library - 65 Victoria Street, Wellington

Reading Cinemas - Courtenay Central, Level 1, 100 Courtenay Place, Wellington

Airport Flyer Waiting Room - Wellington Airport, Stuart Duff Drive, Rongotai, Wellington

http://www.snapper.co.nz/top-up-at-kiosks/

875 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  # 675066 21-Aug-2012 12:34
Send private message

Yes you rightly point out EFTPOS does work at those locations, but not with cash

437 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 675068 21-Aug-2012 12:40
Send private message

Is there a fee for topping up your Snapper SIM or a normal Snapper card via the Snapper App on a 2 Degrees phone? I've done it but never actually took any notice

Edit: Ok, the Snapper site still shows my pre-top up balance and it looks like I got stung ~$3

28373 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  # 675105 21-Aug-2012 14:02
Send private message

oxnsox:
But instead it looks like we're going to be (eventually) pushed into bank provided solutions, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But in the interim we have to put up with disconnected local and regional solutions. In short we'll be paying to re-invent the wheel (all over the country) when we could, and should, have simply been paying to keep the wheels we've got deliver us more efficiently.


To me this is a key point - why do I have to carry a Snapper / HOP card with me to pay for the bus? I should just be able to use a Paypass / Paywave credit card to pay for the journey if I so desire. Unfortunately NZTA don't see any point in this capability so we'll never see it in a solution from them.




1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | ... | 15
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Microsoft Translator understands te reo Māori
Posted 22-Nov-2019 08:46


Chorus to launch Hyperfibre service
Posted 18-Nov-2019 15:00


Microsoft launches first Experience Center worldwide for Asia Pacific in Singapore
Posted 13-Nov-2019 13:08


Disney+ comes to LG Smart TVs
Posted 13-Nov-2019 12:55


Spark launches new wireless broadband "Unplan Metro"
Posted 11-Nov-2019 08:19


Malwarebytes overhauls flagship product with new UI, faster engine and lighter footprint
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:48


CarbonClick launches into Digital Marketplaces
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:42


Kordia offers Microsoft Azure Peering Service
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:41


Spark 5G live on Auckland Harbour for Emirates Team New Zealand
Posted 4-Nov-2019 17:30


BNZ and Vodafone partner to boost NZ Tech for SME
Posted 31-Oct-2019 17:14


Nokia 7.2 available in New Zealand
Posted 31-Oct-2019 16:24


2talk launches Microsoft Teams Direct Routing product
Posted 29-Oct-2019 10:35


New Breast Cancer Foundation app puts power in Kiwi women's hands
Posted 25-Oct-2019 16:13


OPPO Reno2 Series lands, alongside hybrid noise-cancelling Wireless Headphones
Posted 24-Oct-2019 15:32


Waikato Data Scientists awarded $13 million from the Government
Posted 24-Oct-2019 15:27



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.