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  Reply # 854939 13-Jul-2013 14:11
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There is just no way you can safely ride in an urban area without facing your head towards other road users.


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  Reply # 854941 13-Jul-2013 14:26
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Which of these do you consider more dipped?

TheUngeek: There is just no way you can safely ride in an urban area without facing your head towards other road users

GregV: It comes down to the consideration of the cyclist, so please don't lump us all together.

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  Reply # 854943 13-Jul-2013 14:37
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Do you ever look behind you? Check side streets? Keep constant situational awareness?
All essential to safe urban riding.
Anyone of those requires moving your head towards other road users.
Greg, there is NO way for head mounted lights to be safe.
None.

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  Reply # 854944 13-Jul-2013 14:44
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It is really up to the police to pull these cyclists over. Also there needs to be education, perhaps at places where lights are purchased, because there aren't any checks on bikes, like there are with cars. These new bright LED lights can be almost as blinding as lasers. It is just as bad with car though, especially those white bulbs when on high beam. Surprised there aren't more crashes caused by it.



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  Reply # 854952 13-Jul-2013 15:20
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cgreenwood:
Reflectors are all that is needed to see a cyclist in the dark. The light is meant to be for the cyclist to see the road. Period.


That could not be more wrong, any cyclist relying on reflectors to be seen in the dark has a death wish. Lights are primarily to help you be seen, some people use them to help see too.



Right and wrong - a red light on the rear is to help be seen, but a light on the front is primarily to see the road surface immediately in front of you. If you need to have something else on the front to make you visible then mount something with a moderate flash on your handlebars, but don't mount or wear something with such a stupidly bright flash that flashes so rapidly that it is strobing. That is over kill and more than likely (by what others have posted) illegal due to it distraction and blinding effects (from the NZTA website: Your lights can be a hazard if used incorrectly. You must not use cycle lighting equipment in such a way that it dazzles, confuses, or distracts so as to endanger the safety of other road users.).

It is one thing to be safe on the raod by making yourself seen (nothing wrong with that), it is another entirely to remove the safelty from other road users/drivers who've been blinded and can no longer see the road. The key is moderation. We are all road users and we all need to use the road together safely.

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  Reply # 854962 13-Jul-2013 15:42
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keewee01: 
Right and wrong - a red light on the rear is to help be seen, but a light on the front is primarily to see the road surface immediately in front of you. If you need to have something else on the front to make you visible then mount something with a moderate flash on your handlebars, but don't mount or wear something with such a stupidly bright flash that flashes so rapidly that it is strobing. That is over kill and more than likely (by what others have posted) illegal due to it distraction and blinding effects (from the NZTA website: Your lights can be a hazard if used incorrectly. You must not use cycle lighting equipment in such a way that it dazzles, confuses, or distracts so as to endanger the safety of other road users.).



A front flashing light is not illegal, using any light to distract other road users is, don't restrict your statement to cyclists, this relates to all road users, it is no different than a car driver leaving their lights on full.  In saying that the law doesn't say what the maximum brightness of a light can be.



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  Reply # 854984 13-Jul-2013 16:30
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jfanning:
keewee01: 
Right and wrong - a red light on the rear is to help be seen, but a light on the front is primarily to see the road surface immediately in front of you. If you need to have something else on the front to make you visible then mount something with a moderate flash on your handlebars, but don't mount or wear something with such a stupidly bright flash that flashes so rapidly that it is strobing. That is over kill and more than likely (by what others have posted) illegal due to it distraction and blinding effects (from the NZTA website: Your lights can be a hazard if used incorrectly. You must not use cycle lighting equipment in such a way that it dazzles, confuses, or distracts so as to endanger the safety of other road users.).



A front flashing light is not illegal, using any light to distract other road users is, don't restrict your statement to cyclists, this relates to all road users, it is no different than a car driver leaving their lights on full.  In saying that the law doesn't say what the maximum brightness of a light can be.



Oh definitely it relates to all road users. Urban drivers with lights on full are far and few between (certainly around the Hutt Valley) - I've not seen one in months - but yes, the same does apply to them. In those same few months I have been blinded on several occasions (by what I assume were seperate/different cyclists) because they were in different places/situations; I have been highly distracted by strobing, bright LEDs on a bike, and I have seen a cyclist light up a ridiculously huge area with his bike light. I have also seen an insane amount of people who have a car headlight broke! I saw 3 in 30 seconds last night alone, and another 60 seconds later. (Again most probably don't realise, but should start to wonder why people are flashing their lights at them)

No, the law doesn't say what the maximum brightness can be, but from my very first post the NZTA say
  • Your lights can be a hazard if used incorrectly. You must not use cycle lighting equipment in such a way that it dazzles, confuses, or distracts so as to endanger the safety of other road users.
It is highly likely that many of those who are offending have absolutely no idea they are offending, a small number will know and won't care, but most probably don't realise. They should start to wonder though why other road users are flashing their lights, etc at them.

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  Reply # 854998 13-Jul-2013 17:13
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keewee01:

Oh definitely it relates to all road users. Urban drivers with lights on full are far and few between (certainly around the Hutt Valley) - I've not seen one in months - but yes, the same does apply to them. In those same few months I have been blinded on several occasions (by what I assume were seperate/different cyclists) because they were in different places/situations; I have been highly distracted by strobing, bright LEDs on a bike, and I have seen a cyclist light up a ridiculously huge area with his bike light. I have also seen an insane amount of people who have a car headlight broke! I saw 3 in 30 seconds last night alone, and another 60 seconds later. (Again most probably don't realise, but should start to wonder why people are flashing their lights at them)

No, the law doesn't say what the maximum brightness can be, but from my very first post the NZTA say
  • Your lights can be a hazard if used incorrectly. You must not use cycle lighting equipment in such a way that it dazzles, confuses, or distracts so as to endanger the safety of other road users.
It is highly likely that many of those who are offending have absolutely no idea they are offending, a small number will know and won't care, but most probably don't realise. They should start to wonder though why other road users are flashing their lights, etc at them.


As I said, your statement isn't a cycle only one, the law actually lists items such as billboards when talking about the light being distracting

Also, don't assume that what you experience is the same for everyone.  I generally walk or cycle home each day, and each day I have cars drive towards me with their lights on full, and they don't dip them.  I also see lots of cars that don't turn their lights on at all when the light, or visibility is low.  And I don't see any bikes with blinding front lights on their bikes.

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  Reply # 855003 13-Jul-2013 17:22
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wow a lot of posts, haven't read a lot but generalluy when a thread mentions cyclists we go tribal.

I have to agree with Op some of these lights are very bright and annoying. I don't think a lot of those that wear them aree aware of how powerful they are and agree with another comment they need to have a least warnings on trhem if not actually some sort of regulating!. I thought they were mostly used for mountain bikers in forests not urban well lit roads and I don't think they are for warning lights.

Personally I think a good red rear flashing light is a must but those headlights that are being worn that melt bitumen at 50 metres are dangerous. Having said that SUV/4WD's are just as bad as are some dicks that have them on full beam.




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  Reply # 855045 13-Jul-2013 19:18
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GregV:
Which of these do you consider more dipped?



When your riding with you head down that's fine, the problem is when people look up or look around

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  Reply # 855051 13-Jul-2013 19:41
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jfanning:
keewee01: 
Reflectors are all that is needed to see a cyclist in the dark. The light is meant to be for the cyclist to see the road. Period.


So whos fault is it when I am cycling with front and rear (handle bar mounted for the front) lights on, reflective jacket on (hi viz), and reflectors on the bike, on a main road (ie well lit) yet cars still try and run over me?


This has nothing to do with the lights. Has to do with attitude.





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  Reply # 855109 13-Jul-2013 23:12
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Check this....

http://dx.com/p/cree-t6-dual-xpe-r2-3-mode-1800-lumen-3-led-white-bike-light-w-battery-pack-105489

I bought 3 cree flashlights from this website and they are awesome for the price (even after the cost of 18650 battery cells/recharger which are the same cells used inside laptop batteries).

Chucking one of these on a bike could be blinding to oncoming traffic.

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  Reply # 855148 14-Jul-2013 08:40
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I wonder about the overall safety of strobing head/tail lights used by cyclists.
I'm certain that I've read a detailed paper (from USCG?) relating to use of strobing "man overboard" lights in marine rescue. a particular problem identified was that although the strobe allowed brighter light/longer battery life and potential greater "range", there was a significant problem in rescue as the strobing interfered with human depth perception / distance estimation, for example making it extremely hard in pitch-black (and probably in other ways inclement) conditions to locate a MOB with strobe, and manoeuvre a rescue boat for pick-up. I believe the paper also noted that without some other visual reference at night, it was much harder to pinpoint strobe location from rescue helicopters. I believe that the conclusion of that report was that it was still better to have a strobing light with those limitations, than a non-strobing light with insufficient range - or a flat battery.

My gut feeling is that it's the same for cyclists at night - sure you notice the strobed light, but estimating distance is not easy unless there's another visual clue.

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  Reply # 855152 14-Jul-2013 09:11
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Fred99: I wonder about the overall safety of strobing head/tail lights used by cyclists.
I'm certain that I've read a detailed paper (from USCG?) relating to use of strobing "man overboard" lights in marine rescue. a particular problem identified was that although the strobe allowed brighter light/longer battery life and potential greater "range", there was a significant problem in rescue as the strobing interfered with human depth perception / distance estimation, for example making it extremely hard in pitch-black (and probably in other ways inclement) conditions to locate a MOB with strobe, and manoeuvre a rescue boat for pick-up. I believe the paper also noted that without some other visual reference at night, it was much harder to pinpoint strobe location from rescue helicopters. I believe that the conclusion of that report was that it was still better to have a strobing light with those limitations, than a non-strobing light with insufficient range - or a flat battery.

My gut feeling is that it's the same for cyclists at night - sure you notice the strobed light, but estimating distance is not easy unless there's another visual clue.


I don't disagree however a single light could be miles away but the strobe does what its supposed to do which is draw attention to the wearer.




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  Reply # 855155 14-Jul-2013 09:25
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If all road users followed the road rules, practiced common sense and common courtesy things would be safer for all users.




Mike
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