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  Reply # 864105 23-Jul-2013 10:13
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ubergeeknz:
blakamin:

Ever tried stopping from 100 with no engine? 3 pumps doesn't help ;-P
I wouldn't even do it from 50.


Yes, no problem at all - the trick here (you know, if you need to because of engine failure) is don't let up the brake pedal, every time you release it you bleed off brake boost pressure.


Correct.

One point most seem to be missing is in a situation like this your first priority is to prevent the car gaining any more energy, the more energy the harder it is to stop and/or the bigger the crash.  Ideally putting the car in neutral should be the first action, then use the brakes.

A good second choice is switching of the ignition and then apply braking.  For me at least, switching off the ignition and losing power steering is still preferable to the car trying to accelerate while the drive attempts to bring the car under control.




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  Reply # 864112 23-Jul-2013 10:23
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Technofreak: 
One point most seem to be missing is in a situation like this your first priority is to prevent the car gaining any more energy, the more energy the harder it is to stop and/or the bigger the crash.  Ideally putting the car in neutral should be the first action, then use the brakes.

A good second choice is switching of the ignition and braking.  For me at least, switching off the ignition and losing power steering is still preferable to the car trying to accelerate while the drive attempts to bring the car under control.


Pretty sure I said that already... but I'm not sure what kind of lockouts exist on these computer-controlled-at-any-cost death traps that pass for cars nowadays.

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  Reply # 864150 23-Jul-2013 11:13
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Many modern cars have a Brake Assist function to the ABS system that detects rapid application of the brakes and adds pressure.
In an emergency, stomp on the pedal and get that ABS working for you, don't just push on the pedal and half heartedly overheat the brakes. There were US tests where a Toyota under power could still out brake some other brand from the same speed.

"The Camry's braking distances with a purposely stuck accelerator were
also shorter than that of the Ford Taurus' regular stopping distance.[83] Car and Driver
concluded that, based on their emergency stopping tests, the Camry's
brakes could overcome the accelerator in all cases even without a brake
override, and that stopping distances with a wide-open throttle were
largely indiscernible from regular braking." http://www.caranddriver.com/features/how-to-deal-with-unintended-acceleration

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  Reply # 864154 23-Jul-2013 11:17
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Brilliant article!  That actually clears up a lot of the myths about this issue quite nicely.  I wasn't willing to cook my brakes trying this out myself :P

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  Reply # 864665 23-Jul-2013 21:22
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Technofreak:  Ideally putting the car in neutral should be the first action, then use the brakes.



That's the first thing I'd be doing too.
Last time my old car snapped an a/c belt, that took off the p/s belt on the way past, the power steering was a nightmare.
I'm lucky it wasn't rush hour since I was in the right lane of a motorway, inches from armco.
Wouldn't like that to happen to a woman or someone that wasn't an experienced driver, or someone that didn't understand exactly what happened.
This was the main reason I said not to turn off the engine.. that might be fine if you know what you're doing, but how many people do??

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  Reply # 864741 23-Jul-2013 23:20
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Well this thread leads into the next question which is, should you have to crash, how would you choose what to crash into and why?

ie, barrier, trip across grass, fence, another small car, another big car, most expensive looking car, lamppost etc.

what would use choose?

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  Reply # 864800 24-Jul-2013 08:31
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Sorry to hear someone died but its not the car makers fault that their common sense wasn't able to get them out of the situation or they panicked and couldn't react.


Should Stihl be taken to court every time someone doesn't know what they are doing with a chainsaw and cuts their arm off?



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  Reply # 864883 24-Jul-2013 10:30
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BTR: Sorry to hear someone died but its not the car makers fault that their common sense wasn't able to get them out of the situation or they panicked and couldn't react.


Should Stihl be taken to court every time someone doesn't know what they are doing with a chainsaw and cuts their arm off?


Remember that these days people don't have to be accountable for their own actions when there is someone else you can try to blame!

Reminds me must go catch up on the Darwin Awards website see what has been happening lately.

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  Reply # 864890 24-Jul-2013 10:38
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insane: Well this thread leads into the next question which is, should you have to crash, how would you choose what to crash into and why?

ie, barrier, trip across grass, fence, another small car, another big car, most expensive looking car, lamppost etc.

what would use choose?


Totally depends on the situation.  If there's another car going same direction as you, and speed differential is not too much, that would be a good choice, but you need to consider that you might injure people, which is worst of all.  Scraping the car into a barrier, wall etc should slow you down without too much trouble if you can do it, but will of course ruin the side of your vehicle, and hitting something like this at speed is gonna hurt.  Lamp posts, fences, trees, pretty much anything solid and small are probably the worst choices if you plan on surviving/minimising damage to your vehicle.  Grass, scrub, gravel sidings, etc should help you to slow you down fairly quickly and safely; hence why you find "kibble" around race tracks.  If there's a stack of tyres handy, then go for that!!

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  Reply # 864896 24-Jul-2013 10:49
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ubergeeknz:
Technofreak: 
One point most seem to be missing is in a situation like this your first priority is to prevent the car gaining any more energy, the more energy the harder it is to stop and/or the bigger the crash.  Ideally putting the car in neutral should be the first action, then use the brakes.

A good second choice is switching of the ignition and braking.  For me at least, switching off the ignition and losing power steering is still preferable to the car trying to accelerate while the drive attempts to bring the car under control.


Pretty sure I said that already... but I'm not sure what kind of lockouts exist on these computer-controlled-at-any-cost death traps that pass for cars nowadays.
on my Toyota with smart entry and smart key when you turn it off the steering wont lock until the drivers door is opened.  In an emergency where engine runs away full throttle I would push the start/stop button until engine stops.  Sure you dont have power steering or brakes but still easier to turn the wheel and push the brake than many trucks I have driven where you just about have stand on brake and use both arms strongly to turn the wheel.  Better than the car keeping accelerating full speed'
  Trouble these days too many people been spoiled with power brakes power steering that will turn at touch of finger.   Out them in emergency situation and they panic not knowing what to do.






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  Reply # 864901 24-Jul-2013 10:56
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Gilco2: Trouble these days too many people been spoiled with power brakes power steering that will turn at touch of finger.   Out them in emergency situation and they panic not knowing what to do. 


That's very much how I feel about things like ESC and overzealous traction control.  They give drivers a false sense of security.  When they are used to driving with them and nothing else, they can't properly control a vehicle when things go south.



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  Reply # 864958 24-Jul-2013 11:48
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ubergeeknz:
Gilco2: Trouble these days too many people been spoiled with power brakes power steering that will turn at touch of finger.   Out them in emergency situation and they panic not knowing what to do. 


That's very much how I feel about things like ESC and overzealous traction control.  They give drivers a false sense of security.  When they are used to driving with them and nothing else, they can't properly control a vehicle when things go south.


I get nervous when I see 2.5 tonne SUVs hurtling around corners are ludicrous speeds, since I know full well that no matter what that driver is thinks he is doing he is NOT driving that vehicle, he's pointing it and the computers are working their little bits off compensating to keep the vehicle on the road :-(



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  Reply # 865030 24-Jul-2013 13:41
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Gilco2: In an emergency where engine runs away full throttle I would push the start/stop button until engine stops.  Sure you dont have power steering or brakes but still easier to turn the wheel and push the brake than many trucks I have driven where you just about have stand on brake and use both arms strongly to turn the wheel.  Better than the car keeping accelerating full speed


But the car brakes should easily overcome even full accelation. The benefits of many systems you will kill but turning off the engine far outweigh any 'acceleration' you will lose by killing the engine, especially when the same can be achieved by putting the car into Neutral (while still keeping power steering, power braking, ABS, ESC, traction control etc etc available to you).

I would only ever turn off the car as a last ditch resort to stop the car. But it's the first second thing I would do (after applying park and handbrake) after the car came to a stop.




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