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311 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 965573 12-Jan-2014 17:28
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OK, so pretty much they get the keys, one way or the other, without the keys it's very difficult and it's probably not worth it.

463 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 965737 12-Jan-2014 21:46
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Slightly OT, but something I came across when we thought we'd lost one of the factory keys for our 2005 Mazda.  You can "enroll" a new key which you can buy cheap from DX or trademe, but only if you have two working keys.  Makes sense from preventing an opportunistic copying of the keys (valet, car groomer etc) but also means you can be left paying through the nose if you lose or break one of the two working keys.

For high end cars, I wonder how many are vulnerable via their OBD ports?   I bet a few go through a car grooming service on a regular basis where someone just needs to enrol a new key/fob, and then just wait 6 months or so.

EDIT - formatting




 
 
 
 




311 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 965746 12-Jan-2014 21:58
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hashbrown:
For high end cars, I wonder how many are vulnerable via their OBD ports?   I bet a few go through a car grooming service on a regular basis where someone just needs to enrol a new key/fob, and then just wait 6 months or so.


Not many (high end). When I bought my 2000 S8 it came with only one key. I went to about 4 different places and they all were quite confident they can pull the PIN code required to program a new key from the OBD port.
Hearing it's for an S8, they were saying: "it might not be possible, we rarely are able to get it for these cars.". It wasn't, I had to chuck $400 to Continental and get a new factory key.

I'm not sure but I heard somewhere they actually have their software connect to the factory which gives an "authorisation" code of some sort, so a rogue dealer won't be able to do it without the factory knowledge.



2785 posts

Uber Geek


  # 965856 13-Jan-2014 08:34
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Modern cars you pretty much need the original key as it's going to cost you >$300 to get one with the immobiliser chip and alarm on/off circuit in it. For my Alfa at least, you can't get new keys unless you roll into the agents with proof of ownership.

The OBD port is easily accessible if it can be used to disable the immobiliser, but you'd have to get into the car first to get at it, meanwhile the 110dB alarm is going off.

The agents have a "card" which will match a "blank" key with the car, I'm guessing this "card" is some sort of OBD device as there's no other obvious interface in the vehicle. I've no doubt that some of these devices are floating around the black market assuming they don't need to "phone home".




1771 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 965899 13-Jan-2014 09:41
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Friends of mine (married couple) both work and one day their home was burgled. That night while taking stock of what had been stolen, the thieves came back and stole the cars. They had found the spare keys during their first raid.
We used to keep our spare car keys (well, all spare keys actually) in a drawer, now we keep them in the safe.




Life is too short to remove USB safely.


857 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  # 966509 13-Jan-2014 22:38
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Definitely keys stolen one way or another. Trying to add a new key to a VAG immobiliser is a massive pain for the opportunistic.




 


80 posts

Master Geek


  # 967507 15-Jan-2014 12:51
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A factory immobiliser with a timer is a great way to help decrease chances.

and well for alot of cars you can just get a wire from the battery to the starter solenoid to bypass the ignition all together. (although the starter motor will be constantly on)

 
 
 
 


2316 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 967543 15-Jan-2014 13:59
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resurrect: A factory immobiliser with a timer is a great way to help decrease chances.

and well for alot of cars you can just get a wire from the battery to the starter solenoid to bypass the ignition all together. (although the starter motor will be constantly on)


Nothing EFI will start that way. 

509 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 968428 16-Jan-2014 19:17
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How do the cars remain stolen...

http://www.police.govt.nz/stolenwanted/stolen-vehicles

Camera network/cellphone apps + image recog -> API -> Police alert = 10 Hours mowing lawns and developing networking relationships with more seasoned criminals.

considering when I was a teenager I'd happily mow the laws for an hour to get the use of dads car, I think it's the punishment that is insufficient.






956 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 968437 16-Jan-2014 19:40
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They remain stolen because they get chopped and parts farmed out or sent overseas.

I had a GTIR stolen, now any car I buy gets a GPS unit installed along with a cobra alarm of some description.

2385 posts

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311 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 969598 19-Jan-2014 11:18
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it's a hoax, you simply can't send radio signals via a microphone and speaker on the other end :-)

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  # 969701 19-Jan-2014 17:02
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I know that for the more advanced cars the guys stealing it have great knowledge of the EFI etc systmes and will come with looms etc to connect other ECU's they bring with them which are all good to go. Doesn't matter about tripping the warnign lights etc.




Richard rich.ms

2132 posts

Uber Geek


  # 969704 19-Jan-2014 17:18
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With the new fob only cars, what stops someone just turning up with their own computer and fob?




Location: Dunedin

 


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