Diamonds in the road before pedestrian crossings

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Diamonds in the road before pedestrian crossings

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scuwp

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#1010135 20-Mar-2014 20:53

BigHammer: They should get off their bikes and walk. It's a pedestrian crossing, not a cycle way. Considering you aren't allowed to ride on the footpath it really makes no sense that you can ride over a pedestrian crossing.

I can get to work nearly entirely on a shared pathway now, which includes 3 crossings. And yes I cycle over all of them once the way is clear.

In some cases it is safer to ride on the footpath. When the family go out for a ride which includes 2 smaller kids we never go on the road. To full of "muppets" as being discussed in another thread.

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#1010207 20-Mar-2014 21:51

If only there were shared pathways around here.

Klipspringer

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#1010427 21-Mar-2014 10:03

scuwp:
BigHammer: They should get off their bikes and walk. It's a pedestrian crossing, not a cycle way. Considering you aren't allowed to ride on the footpath it really makes no sense that you can ride over a pedestrian crossing.

I can get to work nearly entirely on a shared pathway now, which includes 3 crossings. And yes I cycle over all of them once the way is clear.

In some cases it is safer to ride on the footpath. When the family go out for a ride which includes 2 smaller kids we never go on the road. To full of "muppets" as being discussed in another thread.

I have seen a few pedestrians being hit by cyclists on the footpath in Wellington over the years. Cyclists should stay off footpaths.

Gilco2

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#1010518 21-Mar-2014 12:01

Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ: The Diamond merely indicates a Crossing is ahead

In other countries it works how I described it above. And even when speaking to some drivers here in NZ they agree with my definition, others have never actually noticed the diamonds before.

i have driven only here all my life and at work every 5 years we had refresher driving courses. We were taught the same. If you are approaching the diamond you have time to safely stop when driving at speed limit. If driving at speed limit and between diamond and crossing you can not safely stop. Now in reality not many drivers drive at speed limit and many pedestrians just walk straight out. To be safe the driver should be slowing down before the diamond and ready to stop for inconsiderate pedestrians. Likewise pedestrians need to be aware of speeding and idiot drivers.
In other words you are dammed if you do and dammed if you dont

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Klipspringer

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#1010535 21-Mar-2014 12:17

Gilco2:
Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ: The Diamond merely indicates a Crossing is ahead

In other countries it works how I described it above. And even when speaking to some drivers here in NZ they agree with my definition, others have never actually noticed the diamonds before.

i have driven only here all my life and at work every 5 years we had refresher driving courses. We were taught the same. If you are approaching the diamond you have time to safely stop when driving at speed limit. If driving at speed limit and between diamond and crossing you can not safely stop. Now in reality not many drivers drive at speed limit and many pedestrians just walk straight out. To be safe the driver should be slowing down before the diamond and ready to stop for inconsiderate pedestrians. Likewise pedestrians need to be aware of speeding and idiot drivers.
In other words you are dammed if you do and dammed if you dont

Thats a good point. "safely stop"

According to the NZTA pedestrian planning guide the diamond needs to be placed at least 50meters before the crossing. I wonder how many meters of road is required to stop an average car moving at 50km/h? I would guess its about 25 - 30m

An advance warning diamond can be located at least 50 m in advance of the crossing on each approach. However, if the 85%ile speed is consistently and significantly less than 50 km/h, the diamond should be at the safe stopping distance plus 5 m

Klipspringer

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#1010546 21-Mar-2014 12:29

Some interesting stopping distances from this NZ calculator I found

Here are some stops in the wet with a perceived reaction time of only 1.5 seconds ...

50km/h = 36 meters of road
60km/h = 47m
70km/h = 59m

Azzura

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#1010948 22-Mar-2014 08:45

Crosswalk or not.... I was taught to look both ways before crossing any road. Better to be alive vs dead right

....eh?

If you live vs a car.... you will or could most likely be in a lot of pain for the rest of your life.

Geektastic

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#1010965 22-Mar-2014 10:21

Klipspringer: Not real diamonds LOL. The painted ones ...

So as I understand it, if a pedestrian is standing at the crossing waiting to cross the road and a driver has not yet reached the diamond in the road then the driver needs to stop.

If the driver has already gone past the diamond, and a pedestrian arrives at the crossing, then the pedestrian needs to wait for the car to pass before stepping out into the road.

But here in NZ it seems to be different. Pedestrians just walk and because its a pedestrian crossing they expect cars to stop, no matter where the car is. They will walk thinking that they have right of way.

IMO cars are not expected to stop for pedestrians who are walking to/approaching a crossing either, but it sure seems to look like its expected driving behavior to always stop. Whats the real meaning of these diamonds here in NZ, it seems they serve no purpose.

What are your thoughts?

PS: I never got my license in NZ, I just transferred it here so never actually "took the test" here. Therefore my assumptions are based on how I was taught to drive.

Not sure. I'd never trust a NZ driver to do what they are supposed to do in any case!! I never cross unless the lights are in my favour if it is a controlled crossing, or unless there is no traffic anywhere near if not.

raytaylor

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#1011025 22-Mar-2014 12:41

Klipspringer: Not real diamonds LOL. The painted ones ...

So as I understand it, if a pedestrian is standing at the crossing waiting to cross the road and a driver has not yet reached the diamond in the road then the driver needs to stop.

If I am inside the diamond, I dont stop for a pedestrian.

When the cop came to primary school in wellington to do our crossing guard training, he told us not to push out the stop signs to let other students cross unless there are no cars within the diamond.

Also he said if you are a pedestrian and within the diamonds, you MUST use the crossing to actually cross the road. Eg. You cannot walk cross the road within 10 metres of a road crossing, you must use the crossing itself.
Confirmed? by a cop that approached my cousin and I when we walked across Robinson road in Mangere outside the dairy and didnt use the crossing that was down the road a bit.

Ray Taylor

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#1011045 22-Mar-2014 13:51

raytaylor:
Also he said if you are a pedestrian and within the diamonds, you MUST use the crossing to actually cross the road. Eg. You cannot walk cross the road within 10 metres of a road crossing, you must use the crossing itself.
Confirmed? by a cop that approached my cousin and I when we walked across Robinson road in Mangere outside the dairy and didnt use the crossing that was down the road a bit.

This is where all these "rules of thumb" come unstuck. In a 50kph area the diamond must be at least 50m from the crossing. If the limit is lower the diamond can be closer. A pedestrian must use the crossing within 20m ( not 10 ) so they can cross within the diamonds. The law says the pedestrian shouldn't step out if the driver is too close to give way but leaves too close for the courts or coroner. The driver is to give way to anyone on or waiting at the crossing, I guess the argument would have to be that you were past the point of stopping before they arrived at the point of waiting. In my local area the diamonds are well before the point of no stopping.

MikeB4

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#1011058 22-Mar-2014 15:36

Geektastic:
Klipspringer: Not real diamonds LOL. The painted ones ...

So as I understand it, if a pedestrian is standing at the crossing waiting to cross the road and a driver has not yet reached the diamond in the road then the driver needs to stop.

If the driver has already gone past the diamond, and a pedestrian arrives at the crossing, then the pedestrian needs to wait for the car to pass before stepping out into the road.

But here in NZ it seems to be different. Pedestrians just walk and because its a pedestrian crossing they expect cars to stop, no matter where the car is. They will walk thinking that they have right of way.

IMO cars are not expected to stop for pedestrians who are walking to/approaching a crossing either, but it sure seems to look like its expected driving behavior to always stop. Whats the real meaning of these diamonds here in NZ, it seems they serve no purpose.

What are your thoughts?

PS: I never got my license in NZ, I just transferred it here so never actually "took the test" here. Therefore my assumptions are based on how I was taught to drive.

Not sure. I'd never trust a NZ driver to do what they are supposed to do in any case!! I never cross unless the lights are in my favour if it is a controlled crossing, or unless there is no traffic anywhere near if not.

I am with you here, I never cross until it's absolutely obvious the vehicle is stopping.

However I have been crossing on the across light with a Bus at the front of the vehicle queue, now a wheelchair can sometimes take a few seconds to mount our poorly designed curbing, the lights turn green for the vehicles and the bus will immediately start going, I've had them tooting their
horns at me and come right up to me.

blackjack17

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#1011070 22-Mar-2014 16:45

raytaylor:
Klipspringer: Not real diamonds LOL. The painted ones ...

So as I understand it, if a pedestrian is standing at the crossing waiting to cross the road and a driver has not yet reached the diamond in the road then the driver needs to stop.

If I am inside the diamond, I dont stop for a pedestrian.

When the cop came to primary school in wellington to do our crossing guard training, he told us not to push out the stop signs to let other students cross unless there are no cars within the diamond.

Also he said if you are a pedestrian and within the diamonds, you MUST use the crossing to actually cross the road. Eg. You cannot walk cross the road within 10 metres of a road crossing, you must use the crossing itself.
Confirmed? by a cop that approached my cousin and I when we walked across Robinson road in Mangere outside the dairy and didnt use the crossing that was down the road a bit.

So you are saying that you would run a pedestrian over?

Honestly how difficult is it to stop for a pedestrian, crossing or not? It might add 20 sec max to your trip

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Stu

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#1011104 22-Mar-2014 18:49

The diamonds are no longer a legal indicator. Drivers are now (as of 2004) required to stop for all pedestrians on or approaching a pedestrian crossing. It is up to the driver to drive safely so they can do so.

Pedestrians are pretty much no longer required to think! Utter rubbish really.

Pedestrians should look up the difference between a pedestrian crossing and a courtesy crossing. If I can stop safely and it's safe to do so, you'll probably be in luck. If you bowl out in front of me on a courtesy crossing, you're going to get hurt.

Buzz Bumble

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#1011111 22-Mar-2014 19:18

blackjack17: So you are saying that you would run a pedestrian over?

It used to be a legal requirement ... why do you think Mercedes used to have crosshairs standing up on the bonnet? 20 points for a granny! ;-)

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