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Mad Scientist
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  # 1033796 30-Apr-2014 10:34
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Aaroona:
nitrotech: Best advise I've been given is to remember that it's a court of law not a court of justice - there is very little chance of winning in court - having been through the process it's just not worth the time or energy - save yourself the hassle invest your time into other pursuits.


The problem is here in this case, is it seems the "Law" is not clear.

Their camera started taking pictures of my vehicle before and after I was exiting the intersection. That is approx. 98 meters from where the last photo is taken.

First picture:



Second picture, showing I waited for the bus and then was pulling in behind it - if I was going to use the bus lane, why would I swing out so wide?




Third picture, vehicle in the left lane, driving over a bus stop (not stationary), but NOT in the bus lane, evident by the car next to mine which is over the writing "BUS LANE"





am I incorrect in what I'm thinking?

EDIT: 

Also in the last picture, a quick google map to calcualate distance - even if I started to move before the lane started to split; that's still less than 40 meters, account only for the "BUS LANE"

Am I correct in saying their evidence is alleging I used the bus lane from Picture 1 all the way to picture 3? in which case, that's definitely incorrect.


the series of pics clearly shows you travelled in the bus lane. howe else would you be in front of the bus if you followed behind it in the legal lane?

I am not saying you are right or wrong (i have no idea! thank god i don't live there - where i live if you sit in the car the parking warden waves at you and goes past, no matter how badly you are positioned!)

good luck




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




Human
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  # 1033797 30-Apr-2014 10:37
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joker97:
Aaroona:
nitrotech: Best advise I've been given is to remember that it's a court of law not a court of justice - there is very little chance of winning in court - having been through the process it's just not worth the time or energy - save yourself the hassle invest your time into other pursuits.


The problem is here in this case, is it seems the "Law" is not clear.

Their camera started taking pictures of my vehicle before and after I was exiting the intersection. That is approx. 98 meters from where the last photo is taken.

First picture:



Second picture, showing I waited for the bus and then was pulling in behind it - if I was going to use the bus lane, why would I swing out so wide?




Third picture, vehicle in the left lane, driving over a bus stop (not stationary), but NOT in the bus lane, evident by the car next to mine which is over the writing "BUS LANE"





am I incorrect in what I'm thinking?

EDIT: 

Also in the last picture, a quick google map to calcualate distance - even if I started to move before the lane started to split; that's still less than 40 meters, account only for the "BUS LANE"

Am I correct in saying their evidence is alleging I used the bus lane from Picture 1 all the way to picture 3? in which case, that's definitely incorrect.


the series of pics clearly shows you travelled in the bus lane. howe else would you be in front of the bus if you followed behind it in the legal lane?

I am not saying you are right or wrong (i have no idea! thank god i don't live there - where i live if you sit in the car the parking warden waves at you and goes past, no matter how badly you are positioned!)

good luck


I pulled left where the lane began to expand, at which point I crossed over the bus lane and into the left lane, to where the picture was then taken.

I can see from your POV how it may look. 


Gilco2: Okay I will go by photos and possible council or AT whatever side.  NOTE.  This does not mean I believe you are guilty as I wasnt there.  Just another view that can be taken purely on photos.

First photo shows you on side road wanting to come out onto this road. Shows what we will refer as bus.
Second photo shows you pulling out behind bus and conclude by angle of front wheels you are going into the bus lane.
Third photo shows said bus behind you in other lane and you driving over bus stop. Assumption will be drawn you have driven entire way in bus lane.

Now I am not say you are innocent or guilty, just going by the photos you have shown.  I wasnt there and I dont know the area.  Just pointing out that by the photos you will need to explain to AT etc what happened as they will use those photos to come to the conclusion you drove all the way, even you you didnt.  You need to have a defence for that scenario.


Thanks for the reply - that's the kind of thing I'm looking for - an outsiders view.


To be honest, it's starting to look like it will be difficult to defend. I'll see what the lawyer says as well. 





 
 
 
 


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  # 1033799 30-Apr-2014 10:37
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Gilco2: Okay I will go by photos and possible council or AT whatever side.  NOTE.  This does not mean I believe you are guilty as I wasnt there.  Just another view that can be taken purely on photos.

First photo shows you on side road wanting to come out onto this road. Shows what we will refer as bus.
Second photo shows you pulling out behind bus and conclude by angle of front wheels you are going into the bus lane.
Third photo shows said bus behind you in other lane and you driving over bus stop. Assumption will be drawn you have driven entire way in bus lane.

Now I am not say you are innocent or guilty, just going by the photos you have shown.  I wasnt there and I dont know the area.  Just pointing out that by the photos you will need to explain to AT etc what happened as they will use those photos to come to the conclusion you drove all the way, even you you didnt.  You need to have a defence for that scenario.


ah you beat me to it :D

great minds do think alike!




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1033803 30-Apr-2014 10:38
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doesn't mean you can't take it to the media for clarification

it seems like the auckland by-law is out to get you (your money)

this should not be the case!




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1033806 30-Apr-2014 10:39
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Aaroona: What are the consequences of being found guilty though; is it just added cost to the original fine? Or is it something I have to declare to the insurance company etc. as well?

There are things like insurance which I really would rather not mess with..
Its a very minor traffic conviction (and not one that involves "dangerous" driving).

I dont think it should affect your insurance. With regards defending it.

Despite what some people on here suggested you cant take it to disputes tribunal - thats for civil matters.

This is not civil. The matter will go to the district court where it would be heard by two Community Magistrates. To be found guilty AT need to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

If you are found guilty I think you will have the original fine reinstated + $130 court costs. Expect to take at least one day off work, and if its not heard on the first day (quite possible) then it might be two days.

AT need to provide you with a copy of all there evidence (including photos/video) - they may or may not back down - I think they defend lots of other things. I would love to see a copy of there photos if you havent already posted them (I have only scanned the thread).

You dont need a lawyer - its the sort of thing you can defend yourself - a lawyer will cost you $$$.

Good luck

-Al

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  # 1033811 30-Apr-2014 10:42
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IF they do have a video, I imagine that would clear things up pretty quickly. But would they give it to you...

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  # 1033814 30-Apr-2014 10:45
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CutCutCut: IF they do have a video, I imagine that would clear things up pretty quickly. But would they give it to you...


They have to as part of there disclosure of the evidence. (See the disclosure act).


 
 
 
 




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  # 1033815 30-Apr-2014 10:46
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to answer all the questions re video/pictures;

I have just called AT Transport who have advised me they have video on file.

I have requested that send this out to me, which will arrive within 5 working days.







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  # 1033816 30-Apr-2014 10:48
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Have you measured the distance from the side road you turned out of to the intersection at the bottom of ANZAC Ave?


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  # 1033819 30-Apr-2014 10:49
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Aaroona: to answer all the questions re video/pictures;

I have just called AT Transport who have advised me they have video on file.

I have requested that send this out to me, which will arrive within 5 working days.




Well that should help clear things up, hopefully beyond doubt, I look forward to the update!



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  # 1033820 30-Apr-2014 10:49
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bigal_nz: Have you measured the distance from the side road you turned out of to the intersection at the bottom of ANZAC Ave?



HI yes, this is approx. 152 meters.





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  # 1033821 30-Apr-2014 10:52
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I'm wondering if a person actually viewed this video evidence before making the fine. I guess it could bring up other questions as to whether the bus stop is included in the bus lane or not.

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  # 1033823 30-Apr-2014 10:58
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CutCutCut: I'm wondering if a person actually viewed this video evidence before making the fine. I guess it could bring up other questions as to whether the bus stop is included in the bus lane or not.


Yeah, that was my thought too, Auckland transport may have included the Bus Stop in the Bus Lane,

the OP should also ask for a legal description of the bus lane, (It will have one as  Auckland transport (council) would have had to publically notify it under their bylaws)

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  # 1033827 30-Apr-2014 11:02
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Time to consider on-dash cams ?

 

 

They are cheap enough, but would they be suited for defending your claim ?




My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government


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  # 1033836 30-Apr-2014 11:12
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Aaroona: to answer all the questions re video/pictures;

I have just called AT Transport who have advised me they have video on file.

I have requested that send this out to me, which will arrive within 5 working days.

Can they upload it to youtube instead? ; ).

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