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  Reply # 1036698 5-May-2014 03:39
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Fred99: Audi A3 sportback prices are about 25-30% higher in NZ than in the UK.  Despite what you'll be told, freight only accounts for a very small % of new car price.
So that gives some idea of the very high markup "gross margin" for Audi in NZ.  If you want an Audi badge on your VW/Skoda/Audi, then there's a big premium to be paid in NZ.  Sure they'll discount one for you, but if you make an offer that they don't accept, be prepared to walk.  Most likely they'll just try to sweeten the deal with options.  An option like a towbar including wiring is probably $2500 - they really know how to charge for stuff like that here.
Skoda Octavia is the same car - with lower margin -  $16,000 less for an Octavia liftback 1.8T elegance than the equivalent a3 sport.
Despite the same mechanical components and performance, Skoda is upstaging VW and Audi in UK car reliability surveys, perhaps indicating that build quality out of the Czech Republic is better than from other VAG plants.




I am finding this thread very interesting because we are likely to be in market for a new car later this year. We had intended to buy an Audi A4 but will look at others. I have been aware of where Skoda fits into all this (as in the above post) and although my head says 'Skoda', my heart probably won't want us to drive something with a Skoda badge on it. Expensive snobbery - unfortunately I am old enough to remember the weird Skodas of the 60's and 70's (before VAG bought in) which had a very poor reliability reputation. Skodas and Ladas were the butt of many jokes back then.

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  Reply # 1036849 5-May-2014 11:04
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eracode:
Fred99: Audi A3 sportback prices are about 25-30% higher in NZ than in the UK.  Despite what you'll be told, freight only accounts for a very small % of new car price.
So that gives some idea of the very high markup "gross margin" for Audi in NZ.  If you want an Audi badge on your VW/Skoda/Audi, then there's a big premium to be paid in NZ.  Sure they'll discount one for you, but if you make an offer that they don't accept, be prepared to walk.  Most likely they'll just try to sweeten the deal with options.  An option like a towbar including wiring is probably $2500 - they really know how to charge for stuff like that here.
Skoda Octavia is the same car - with lower margin -  $16,000 less for an Octavia liftback 1.8T elegance than the equivalent a3 sport.
Despite the same mechanical components and performance, Skoda is upstaging VW and Audi in UK car reliability surveys, perhaps indicating that build quality out of the Czech Republic is better than from other VAG plants.




I am finding this thread very interesting because we are likely to be in market for a new car later this year. We had intended to buy an Audi A4 but will look at others. I have been aware of where Skoda fits into all this (as in the above post) and although my head says 'Skoda', my heart probably won't want us to drive something with a Skoda badge on it. Expensive snobbery - unfortunately I am old enough to remember the weird Skodas of the 60's and 70's (before VAG bought in) which had a very poor reliability reputation. Skodas and Ladas were the butt of many jokes back then.


Those old skodas were underrated - and quite reliable.  However they turned into piles of rust quickly, but that's typical for many cars of that era.
"Reliability", "quality", and "user satisfaction" shouldn't be considered synonymous.  You'll find a big disparity between "user survey" data and more scientifically collated data from mechanical warranty companies as you go up-market:

That's consistent IMO.  Those cars regularly rank rock-bottom on any and every methodically collated survey, yet as a "luxury marque", owners are surprisingly happy with them. What's more important?  Moot point I guess.
So beware owner anecdotes - good and bad - about cars.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1036926 5-May-2014 12:19
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European cars generally rank poorly for reliability compared to Japanese. We also pay a lot more in MZ for European cars , while in Europe they appear to pay a lot more for cars out of Asia. Then there are service costs and parts which appear to be higher for European. There used to be the dog and lemon guide you could buy, but I don't think it now comes out in a book form, which is disappointing, as it was useful to compare.

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  Reply # 1036956 5-May-2014 12:45
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I think you go in there, let them know you are in the market, and ready to commit.
Lowball them a bit. They will check and come back with another offer (Highball if you like).
Tell them that is not acceptable, offer them a bit more - let them know you are serious and ready to buy (if they think you are tyrekicking, or price finding, you won't get far - if they know you won't take the price they give you and go elsewhere, you'll get further).

Good luck.

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  Reply # 1036959 5-May-2014 12:50
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trig42: I think you go in there, let them know you are in the market, and ready to commit.
Lowball them a bit. They will check and come back with another offer (Highball if you like).
Tell them that is not acceptable, offer them a bit more - let them know you are serious and ready to buy (if they think you are tyrekicking, or price finding, you won't get far - if they know you won't take the price they give you and go elsewhere, you'll get further).

Good luck.


Actually 90% of retailers now require an onsite offer before they will negotiate seriously. 


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  Reply # 1036973 5-May-2014 13:13
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I find it quite interesting that many people will so more research and negotiate harder when buying a TV. Although people buying cars still tend to do more research than someone buying a house

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  Reply # 1036977 5-May-2014 13:21
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I asked BMW for some kind of discount, but they flat-out refused. 

So, left and never returned. 

I guess I'm one of those people who likes to haggle a bit and if the other party refuses to play then I walk away. 


Given that new car sales are booming probably it might be a bit harder to negotiate a discount in that kind of market. 

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  Reply # 1036994 5-May-2014 13:41
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Honda set a policy a few years ago that rather than having a 'high' price that they would then haggle over - they would offer a guaranteed 'fixed' price that wasnt negotiable. They then dropped their list prices. I guess it was an attempt to say 'this is the real price - take it or leave it'. They still quote this on their website:

   Because we give everyone the same fair price, you are not at a disadvantage to Government, large corporates and
   rental car companies who have greater purchasing power. 

Haggling isnt something that kiwis are particularly used to or comfortable with.
Pity they wouldnt all just offer their best price and be honest about it instead of playing silly buggers.




Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

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  Reply # 1036995 5-May-2014 13:44
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surfisup1000: I asked BMW for some kind of discount, but they flat-out refused. 

So, left and never returned. 

I guess I'm one of those people who likes to haggle a bit and if the other party refuses to play then I walk away. 


Given that new car sales are booming probably it might be a bit harder to negotiate a discount in that kind of market. 


I recall being offered pretty decent discounts at BMW about 5 years ago, but ultimately I imported my own and saved 35%

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  Reply # 1036996 5-May-2014 13:44
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surfisup1000: I asked BMW for some kind of discount, but they flat-out refused. 

So, left and never returned. 

I guess I'm one of those people who likes to haggle a bit and if the other party refuses to play then I walk away. 


Given that new car sales are booming probably it might be a bit harder to negotiate a discount in that kind of market. 


I know someone who works for BMW in Europe, and he said that the NZ market is so tiny, and they sell so few here, that even he wouldn't be able to get much of a discount for them in NZ. Very few dealers selling them too. BMWs are quite nice, but people tend to buy them as a status symbol, same with Audi. VW tend to be a better value option, as it isn't a top premium brand but has many of the features. 

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  Reply # 1037001 5-May-2014 13:51
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robjg63: Honda set a policy a few years ago that rather than having a 'high' price that they would then haggle over - they would offer a guaranteed 'fixed' price that wasnt negotiable. They then dropped their list prices. I guess it was an attempt to say 'this is the real price - take it or leave it'. They still quote this on their website:

   Because we give everyone the same fair price, you are not at a disadvantage to Government, large corporates and
   rental car companies who have greater purchasing power. 

Haggling isnt something that kiwis are particularly used to or comfortable with.
Pity they wouldnt all just offer their best price and be honest about it instead of playing silly buggers.


They do this in Australia as well.  It is probably why you rarely see Hondas as fleet cars...

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  Reply # 1037558 6-May-2014 10:28
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In the US the last couple years, MSRP on the dealer's window sticker is just a number stuck there in the hope some random will pay it..

You haggle until the sales manager starts wailing they're selling below invoice price, and pulls up the paperwork to prove it.

I assume once you've beat the salesman out of his commission and the dealer out of their markup they're still shifting inventory..

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  Reply # 1037666 6-May-2014 12:11
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Sidestep: In the US the last couple years, MSRP on the dealer's window sticker is just a number stuck there in the hope some random will pay it..

You haggle until the sales manager starts wailing they're selling below invoice price, and pulls up the paperwork to prove it.

I assume once you've beat the salesman out of his commission and the dealer out of their markup they're still shifting inventory..


... but some of us feel a bit guilty in doing this.

I did a ring-around dealers a couple of weeks ago looking for the best price for the car we were after (no, not a fancy European model, but a Mazda 6 Ltd wagon); I managed to find that, while some initially offered it to me at list price (at that time, about $61k), others were more forthcoming - the best I got offered by a few dealers was $48,500. Again, to support what some have said above, a couple of the salespeople mentioned there being no margin in this but that it would at least count towards that month's sales (being the last week of the month). Given many dealers have s/h cars of the same model selling for more than I could have bought it new indicates they were being squeezed.

I can't say I felt good about doing this, but considering it was a significant amount of money for us it was kinda critical if we were ever going to contemplate buying new. The end of the story, though, was we ended up buying a 10-month old one anyway, saving another $7k on that best new price. This has been the only time I've been tempted to buy a new car - usually far better off to let someone else take the financial hit that's inevitable when driving it out of the showroom. But, I guess if I was wealthy it wouldn't be an issue!

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  Reply # 1037721 6-May-2014 13:57
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jonathan18: But, I guess if I was wealthy it wouldn't be an issue!

 

You will find that the wealthy are often the biggest and hardest hagglers to drive down the price. They will offer cash and expect a good discount for this.

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  Reply # 1037924 6-May-2014 20:17
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jonathan18: I did a ring-around dealers a couple of weeks ago looking for the best price for the car we were after (no, not a fancy European model, but a Mazda 6 Ltd wagon); I managed to find that, while some initially offered it to me at list price (at that time, about $61k), others were more forthcoming - the best I got offered by a few dealers was $48,500.


so which were the best dealers for discounting?  was looking myself a couple of months back...

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