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  Reply # 1338105 6-Jul-2015 19:48
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New Zealanders cant merge to save them selves nor when the road goes into 2 lanes do they get in the lane appropriate to their speed.

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  Reply # 1339504 8-Jul-2015 19:50
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mattwnz:

With the Rimutukas, they should have built a tunnel, as they have already got a rail tunnel for it. [snip]


+many to that. It would change the economics of the region as now the Wairarapa now becomes a much more bedroom community for Wellington.

Of course folks who live there might not like losing their peace and quiet :-)




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  Reply # 1339572 8-Jul-2015 23:32
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Jase2985: New Zealanders cant merge to save them selves nor when the road goes into 2 lanes do they get in the lane appropriate to their speed.


So improving infrastructure to modern standards should be postponed because people are unfamiliar as to how to use them?

I wonder what would have happened when the man that invented the escalator would've thought like that :)




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Reply # 1339601 9-Jul-2015 00:41
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Don't want any highways improved, just want them to hurry up and finish the work they currently have happening.

Driving the Northwestern Motorway most days, It almost seems like nothing changes from day to day. The same road closures every night adding an extra 30 minutes to a already long day, and when I drive past the next time, there's absolutely no changes.

Road improvements here seem to take an unusually long time to be completed.

I travel overseas regularly, I recall travelling to Hong Kong where a cable stay bridge and 4 lane highway was being constructed with a tunnel (works had just started), and when I returned 7 months later it was complete. 

It takes months here just to get a new layer of seal added to an existing road, let alone constructing tunnels and bridges! Gosh, tunnels and bridges, if the Northwestern motorway and Waterview connection are anything to go by, don't expect them to be completed in anything less than 5 years!

I guess its work for the contractors, but I can't help but wonder why it takes so bloody long!

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  Reply # 1339603 9-Jul-2015 01:10
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gmball: Don't want any highways improved, just want them to hurry up and finish the work they currently have happening.

Driving the Northwestern Motorway most days, It almost seems like nothing changes from day to day. The same road closures every night adding an extra 30 minutes to a already long day, and when I drive past the next time, there's absolutely no changes.

Road improvements here seem to take an unusually long time to be completed.

I travel overseas regularly, I recall travelling to Hong Kong where a cable stay bridge and 4 lane highway was being constructed with a tunnel (works had just started), and when I returned 7 months later it was complete. 

It takes months here just to get a new layer of seal added to an existing road, let alone constructing tunnels and bridges! Gosh, tunnels and bridges, if the Northwestern motorway and Waterview connection are anything to go by, don't expect them to be completed in anything less than 5 years!

I guess its work for the contractors, but I can't help but wonder why it takes so bloody long!


OSH, the RMA, and other red tape just makes everything like this so expensive and slow.

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  Reply # 1339632 9-Jul-2015 07:05
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gmball: Don't want any highways improved, just want them to hurry up and finish the work they currently have happening.

Driving the Northwestern Motorway most days, It almost seems like nothing changes from day to day. The same road closures every night adding an extra 30 minutes to a already long day, and when I drive past the next time, there's absolutely no changes.

Road improvements here seem to take an unusually long time to be completed.

I travel overseas regularly, I recall travelling to Hong Kong where a cable stay bridge and 4 lane highway was being constructed with a tunnel (works had just started), and when I returned 7 months later it was complete. 

It takes months here just to get a new layer of seal added to an existing road, let alone constructing tunnels and bridges! Gosh, tunnels and bridges, if the Northwestern motorway and Waterview connection are anything to go by, don't expect them to be completed in anything less than 5 years!

I guess its work for the contractors, but I can't help but wonder why it takes so bloody long!


Also the contractors in the NZ are primarly project management firms and generally don't own the construction plant or have the labour employed by them.  All the works I have ever been client for, the contractor has made extensive use of hirepool for gear and the labour hire firms for the workers... This generally leads to little improvement in their skills and no desire to perform for the company, as they're not employed.

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  Reply # 1339633 9-Jul-2015 07:19
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ScuL:
Jase2985: New Zealanders cant merge to save them selves nor when the road goes into 2 lanes do they get in the lane appropriate to their speed.


So improving infrastructure to modern standards should be postponed because people are unfamiliar as to how to use them?

I wonder what would have happened when the man that invented the escalator would've thought like that :)


no it just shouldn't be upgraded to a 3 lane system, you have to make things idiot proof in the country. An d if your going to do it you should do it properly and do it to 4 lane standards

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  Reply # 1339635 9-Jul-2015 07:22
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gmball: Don't want any highways improved, just want them to hurry up and finish the work they currently have happening.

Driving the Northwestern Motorway most days, It almost seems like nothing changes from day to day. The same road closures every night adding an extra 30 minutes to a already long day, and when I drive past the next time, there's absolutely no changes.

Road improvements here seem to take an unusually long time to be completed.

I travel overseas regularly, I recall travelling to Hong Kong where a cable stay bridge and 4 lane highway was being constructed with a tunnel (works had just started), and when I returned 7 months later it was complete. 

It takes months here just to get a new layer of seal added to an existing road, let alone constructing tunnels and bridges! Gosh, tunnels and bridges, if the Northwestern motorway and Waterview connection are anything to go by, don't expect them to be completed in anything less than 5 years!

I guess its work for the contractors, but I can't help but wonder why it takes so bloody long!


I think its unfair to compare Hong Kong and NZ, Hong Kong has a considerably larger work force available and greater financial resources.




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  Reply # 1339636 9-Jul-2015 07:24
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Jase2985:
ScuL:
Jase2985: New Zealanders cant merge to save them selves nor when the road goes into 2 lanes do they get in the lane appropriate to their speed.


So improving infrastructure to modern standards should be postponed because people are unfamiliar as to how to use them?

I wonder what would have happened when the man that invented the escalator would've thought like that :)


no it just shouldn't be upgraded to a 3 lane system, you have to make things idiot proof in the country. An d if your going to do it you should do it properly and do it to 4 lane standards


Are you willing to pay higher taxes and road user charges to have 4 lane expressways etc ?




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1339647 9-Jul-2015 08:13
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I agree with MikeB4 above, I still don't see how these grandiose schemes could possibly be funded without a huge increase in petrol tax, or massive tolling.  The last petrol tax increases were to fund the Roads of National Significance - which were politically motivated rather than looking at areas of greatest need.


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  Reply # 1339652 9-Jul-2015 08:25
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MikeB4:
Jase2985:
ScuL:
Jase2985: New Zealanders cant merge to save them selves nor when the road goes into 2 lanes do they get in the lane appropriate to their speed.


So improving infrastructure to modern standards should be postponed because people are unfamiliar as to how to use them?

I wonder what would have happened when the man that invented the escalator would've thought like that :)


no it just shouldn't be upgraded to a 3 lane system, you have to make things idiot proof in the country. An d if your going to do it you should do it properly and do it to 4 lane standards


Are you willing to pay higher taxes and road user charges to have 4 lane expressways etc ?


i only said if you do something you do it properly, im not saying SH1 should be 4 lanes the whole way

IE when they built the 2 newish motorways in auckland, why did they no do the foundations for them 3 lanes wide each way? and only pave 2, it would be minimal extra cost at the time of construction or a heap load more 5 years down the track when it finally grinds to hault.

As with most things if your going to do it, do it right the first time and save yourself a lot of money

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  Reply # 1339671 9-Jul-2015 09:13
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Jase2985: 
IE when they built the 2 newish motorways in auckland, why did they no do the foundations for them 3 lanes wide each way? and only pave 2, it would be minimal extra cost at the time of construction or a heap load more 5 years down the track when it finally grinds to hault.


I know with SH18 - Upper Harbour Motorway they did exactly this - also you will notice when you go through an underpass there is a huge amount of space on either side so they won't need to be changed when the 3 laning happens.

Having said that, has any country in the world actually solved congestion on a long term basis by widening roads?  Even with all of the projects underway in Auckland, the long term increase in traffic will always be higher than the increase in road capacity so average speeds will drop.  While many home owners in Auckland are very happy about the massive increase in property values, this makes widening roads/motorways even more expensive as often more private land will need to be purchased at tremendous cost.


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  Reply # 1339681 9-Jul-2015 09:19
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Jase2985:
i only said if you do something you do it properly, im not saying SH1 should be 4 lanes the whole way

IE when they built the 2 newish motorways in auckland, why did they no do the foundations for them 3 lanes wide each way? and only pave 2, it would be minimal extra cost at the time of construction or a heap load more 5 years down the track when it finally grinds to hault.

As with most things if your going to do it, do it right the first time and save yourself a lot of money


We have a population of around 4.5 Million of which approximately  2.6 million are of working age, that is not a lot to fund a  highway infrastructure.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1339725 9-Jul-2015 10:00
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MikeB4:
Jase2985:
i only said if you do something you do it properly, im not saying SH1 should be 4 lanes the whole way

IE when they built the 2 newish motorways in auckland, why did they no do the foundations for them 3 lanes wide each way? and only pave 2, it would be minimal extra cost at the time of construction or a heap load more 5 years down the track when it finally grinds to hault.

As with most things if your going to do it, do it right the first time and save yourself a lot of money


We have a population of around 4.5 Million of which approximately  2.6 million are of working age, that is not a lot to fund a  highway infrastructure.


Yes it is, a lot harder than you think to fund transport infrastructure.  A simple 6m wide seal extension (i.e. chipseal over a metal road) costs in the region of $800-$1200 per linear metre... The bigger the road, the more cost per linear metre, let alone consenting fees, maintenance and operational costs etc. Auckland, with its 1.5m population is struggling to maintain the network it has inherited from the previous districts let alone what developers add every year.  NZTA are struggling to maintain their existing network as the national land transport fund is not regenerating as quickly as they spend it as people are driving less than previous years.

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  Reply # 1339802 9-Jul-2015 11:09
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portunus:
Jase2985: 
IE when they built the 2 newish motorways in auckland, why did they no do the foundations for them 3 lanes wide each way? and only pave 2, it would be minimal extra cost at the time of construction or a heap load more 5 years down the track when it finally grinds to hault.


I know with SH18 - Upper Harbour Motorway they did exactly this - also you will notice when you go through an underpass there is a huge amount of space on either side so they won't need to be changed when the 3 laning happens.

Having said that, has any country in the world actually solved congestion on a long term basis by widening roads?  Even with all of the projects underway in Auckland, the long term increase in traffic will always be higher than the increase in road capacity so average speeds will drop.  While many home owners in Auckland are very happy about the massive increase in property values, this makes widening roads/motorways even more expensive as often more private land will need to be purchased at tremendous cost.



totally, and its stemmed from many many years of under investment in both roading and public transport.

the way i look at it is you could spend an extra 20million now on making a road future proof ie capable of adding a lane each way just by sealing over the top, which would take a month or so for them to sort out (not including consents etc) down the track, or build it to suit what is needed now for slightly less, and then in 5 years have to spend 100million to make the road wider and spend a year doing it. in 5 years the value of the money being spent is also more than it is today so you are loosing out on that fact too.

Its all about forethought.

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