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## k1wi

484 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1100919 2-Aug-2014 23:43

To digress from the OP's topic...

joker97: Just a word about safety. In a crash the heavier thing always wins.
The NCAP stars are strictly tested on low speed and simple collision.
Say one sided front collision at 60kph.
That equates to a head on crash with both cars going at 30kph (30 + 30=60).
No, it doesn't.  It equals two vehicles with identical mass colliding while both travelling at 60kph.  This is due to Newton's third law. The Mythbusters show this in one of their episode and iihs outline this in their description of the test.

joker 97: If you crash at 70kph (say travelling at 100 and emergency brake for 0.5 secs) with the other car at 70 that is a 140k collision.If the other car is twice your weight you will get nearly the entire force. Airbags or not won't do squat.
It's not a '140k' collision.  The two vehicles will impart the same force on each other (3rd law).  What you may have been getting at is that the deceleration will be twice as high in the smaller car (inversely opposite to the difference in mass).

So the physics do dictate that you are better off being in the larger vehicle.  Of course if everyone takes this approach, then we all end up driving very large vehicles and we're essentially no better off, except our fuel consumption is through the roof. This is one factor (among many) as to why the US has such large cars.  However, how vehicles are able to deal with deceleration has a major impact on how well it protects the occupants of the vehicle.

The other interesting thing is that a Holden Commodore, a 'big car', is only 600kg (or 60%) heavier than a Jazz (~1000kg).  So it still has to deal with a considerable amount of deceleration.  Far from doing squat, airbags, crumple zones, passenger safety cells as a collective go a huge way towards mitigating the effect of crashes in smaller vehicles.

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## meesham

973 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1100922 2-Aug-2014 23:48

joker97: Just a word about safety. In a crash the heavier thing always wins.

The NCAP stars are strictly tested on low speed and simple collision.

Say one sided front collision at 60kph.

That equates to a head on crash with both cars going at 30kph (30 + 30=60).

If you crash at 70kph (say travelling at 100 and emergency brake for 0.5 secs) with the other car at 70 that is a 140k collision.

If the other car is twice your weight you will get nearly the entire force. Airbags or not won't do squat.

This is a common misconception and a claim Jamie Hyneman from Mythbusters also made then later disproved in episode "Mythssion Control" after a few physicists corrected him. A head on collision with both cars going at 30km/h wouldn't be the equivalent of 60km/h. There's a good explanation here: http://warp.povusers.org/grrr/collisionmath.html

Back to the original topic - my wife has a 2010 Jazz Sport (1.5L traditional auto), loves it, heaps of room and so far all we've had to replace on it is the battery.

Edit: k1wi beat me to it!

## Batman

Mad Scientist
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#1100926 3-Aug-2014 00:11

ah is that why the NCAP videos look so gruesome - don't hit a wall, don't hit a tree, don't hit head on!

## k1wi

484 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1100935 3-Aug-2014 01:36

joker97: ah is that why the NCAP videos look so gruesome - don't hit a wall, don't hit a tree, don't hit head on!
Just wanted to say great response and I hope my previous post didn't come across as too critical!

There may even be some unintentional physics mistakes in my post - such are the nuances and less intuitive aspects of the dark art.

## jonathan18

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#1100944 3-Aug-2014 08:35

If you haven't already, have a read of this earlier thread from only a few days ago, much of which is on Jazzes/Fits:

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=150634

I take it the 2007 is the original model? My wife drives a gen 2 Jazz Sport (NZ new) - I think it's a 2008, so must be very early of the second gen, so can't comment too much on the  first gen, other than she loves the car. The 1.5 is also a fairly strong engine, particularly around town. (I've also posted in that other thread on the fuel efficiency, which can be quite poor, depending on how it's driven).

One thing I would note is is our mechanic thinks they're brilliantly designed (mechanically, not the magic seats etc) - ours was the first he'd worked on, and he was seriously quite excited!

And, as Joker97 said earlier, if you want decent interior space in a compact car, you just can't better the Jazz - was the only compact that could take our Mountain Buggy!

tehgerbil: Btw, the fit= Japanese model, jazz= international. Biggest differences are fit needs an fm band expander and they have the reverse beep, jazz cars don't!

The most critical difference is with the second generation, where the Jazz (NZ new) didn't have the CVT gearbox. It's one of the main reasons why we ended up purchasing this, rather than the first gen, as we had already had our fair share of issues with a CVT in a P12 Nissan Primera. Now it's a much more mature technology, I'd probably be ok should my wife want to end up buying the new third gen Jazz, which in NZ has now gone back to a CVT. Earlier posts here talk about a shuddering problem, but seems to be ways of dealing with this...

## tchart

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#1100958 3-Aug-2014 09:29

joker97: Say one sided front collision at 60kph.

That equates to a head on crash with both cars going at 30kph (30 + 30=60).

Actually mythbusters...doh! everyone already beat me to it.

## Batman

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#1100966 3-Aug-2014 09:34

the way it is put it appears head on collision isn't too bad. which is not true.

the way I see it, hitting an immovable object is very very bad, as bad as a head on collision.

what is reassuring though is the NCAP testing simulates a head on at 60. above that, you're on your own.

## drgshah

20 posts

Geek

#1102584 5-Aug-2014 13:13

I purchased my first car, a Honda Fit 2004 from trademe in December 2013. It had 59k on it.

The car has plenty of room. I am 6ft 2in tall and can drive with minimal problems (gets uncomfortable during long drives though).
Fuel economy is awesome, i think its around 18.9kms/L for me, thats if I've done it right.
Its gets noisy inside at high speeds!!
---
Since i only had a learners licence back then, i drove it only for about 500kms until February 2014 when it decided to show signs of CVT failure. (shuddering, transmission D light flashing, frequent stalling, Rev meter jumping up and down all the time, etc.)

Honda service center diagnosed it as a CVT transmission failure and suggested a CVT replacement (\$1800 for a new CVT with 3 years warranty).

The dealer on trademe had only mentioned a 1 month warranty and refused to pay for the repairs as he blamed everything on a CVT fluid change that was done at a local service/repair center (even though the problems existed before the CVT fluid change).

Went to disputes tribunal, won the case against the dealer, got him to pay for all the service and repair costs.

So now i have a 2004 Honda fit with a brand new CVT :)

Here's what i learned from this:
1. Don't buy a car at an auction (you cannot go to Disputes Tribunal if you purchased the car at an auction)
2. Even if the dealer provides a short warranty, you can make him pay for any problems based on "how long the purchased item/parts works on an average". As an example: if you buy a laptop worth \$1500 with a 1 year warranty and the mother board fails on the 370th day, you may still claim warranty based on the fact that the motherboard should not generally fail in a year :)
3. Have a record of all communication with your dealer (i had an sms from the dealer saying that the car had "no problems whatsoever", which i think helped me a great deal in my case)
4. Contact the dealer before you do any repairs - as long as it is within a reasonable period.

Hope this helps someone !!
Cheers.

## zaptor

741 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1102623 5-Aug-2014 13:50

We have a 2007 Jazz. Awesome car. No issues with CVT - so far.

I spent a little time researching all available small car models under \$30K at the time of purchase. We wanted a roomy, economical, small car from a reputable manufacturer.
Spent time test driving several vehicles. I had certain criteria, which excluded a few makes.

As a 'family' small car, the Jazz was easily the best of the bunch.

It's also got the more roomy front passenger seat/dash arrangement - IMHO anyway, than the current models.

A shame you can't wait until December. Generally the best time of year to buy from a dealer.

## Batman

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#1102631 5-Aug-2014 13:53

Or now, from an importer, die to the super during dollar recently.

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