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htl

htl
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  #1376466 30-Aug-2015 16:35
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I Have the same problem also with my focus. I've been trying to diagnose the problem with no luck.
Here's some information that may help:
One thing I've noticed on my car is when driven at around 40k or higher through corners with light throttle applied you can quite often hear some sort of "clinking / clunk " coming from the drive train. Its like something is just about to pop out and make the graunch sound.
One of the most recent occasions it did it I clutched in and tried to change gear,  with resulted in a big graunched gear change.
I've also tried running the car with the front wheels of the ground to fault find but you can have the car idling in gear, when you touch the accelerator the ESC kicks in but it does make a very similar sound to the one that happens at speed.
Also, not sure if the other Focus's do it, but when you first start your car up and drive off, at 20kmh you here a small clink / thud from the drive train. Apparently this part of the ABS self test, but I have the old occasion where the noise turns into the graunch type of noise, sometimes when I take off from fresh start with a decent amount of turn on.
Hope this information useful, would really like to get to the bottom of this!

Fred99
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  #1376742 31-Aug-2015 00:11
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These diesel manual transmission Ford Focus do have a dual mass flywheel - which are a horrible idea IMO and can cause clunky transmission noises in normal use (decelerate then accelerate) or they get rattly at idle when they're about to crap out completely.  But if this is a DMF / clutch issue bad enough to cause slippage / rev increase under those conditions,  then it would be an expensive fix.  It also doesn't explain why the ESC light would come on when the symptom appeared when driving normally on a dry road.


 
 
 
 


sneaka
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  #1401392 6-Oct-2015 22:46
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So it's been about six weeks since my last update regarding the Focus. It went to the nearest Ford dealership for about a fortnight. They apparently worked with Ford NZ and Ford Australia as everyone was stumped by the problem and had never heard of it before (about time they checked out this thread I think as we aren't alone). 

They downloaded all the data from the car (which incidentally had not recorded any faults), ran it with a diagnostic tool, drove it for miles out of town around hills etc and apparently couldn't get it to fault. I find that hard to believe as every time I drive it to or from the town where the dealership is I get it to fault in almost exactly the same place each time. They reloaded and updated all the software and told me to take it away and see how it goes. It's now actually playing up more frequently. 

So apparently the graunching whirring noise is the ABS unit kicking into life, you hear it more on the left hand front as it's located there. It's louder when it manages to activate the traction control (ESC) and then you can feel the car take control of the wheels.  I always hear a tick, tick when driving on uneven bumps before the ABS activates, but when you hear the tick, you know it's going to play up. So the guys at the dealership tell me it's doing everything it's supposed to do. I asked if the tolerances on the wheel sensors (which control the ABS and traction control modules) could be adjusted as obviously they are far too touchy for the windy and hilly roads I travel on regularly. They told me that the tolerances cannot be changed. Amazing in this IT day and age. Apparently this year of manufacture or build type (and I'm not exactly sure of the actual timeframe) was known for overly-sensitive wheel sensors.

For the record, I am a nana driver and the roads I travel on and get this problem happening are hilly and windy, but they are tar sealed and DRY. ABS and ESC should NOT be activating in these conditions and speeds I travel at. I actually think its dangerous how frequently it comes on and puts me on edge when I'm driving, particularly when my kids are in the car as they don't like the noise either. 

In some of the older Focuses you could get into the menu screen on the dash and turn the ABS off. In the model I have you can't, so I asked the guys at the dealership if you could just pull the fuses out for ABS and traction control (ESC) to disable them. They seemed to think you could but I was dubious as to whether this would be a good idea as it would probably leave ABS and ESC check lights on the dash permanently until the fuses were put back in. Also, it would fail a WOF if the ABS and ESC lights were on and were disabled so you'd have to put fuses in again. And hardly a good fix when one of the reasons we bought this car was because of its excellent safety rating. 

So what are the options here? Replacing wheel sensors sounds like a waste of time and money as I don't believe it's the sensors, but rather the parameters that they have been programmed to. Pulling the fuses of the modules out would surely change the safety rating for the car, and I'm not particularly keen to do this either. It sounds like we have to lump it or leave it which is extremely disappointing as it is such a great car apart from this fault.

I will be phoning Ford and the company I bought the car off back tomorrow to see what they think our options are. Anybody else get any further with their Focus?

Batman
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  #1401393 6-Oct-2015 22:51
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I don't understand how it's normal.

Why would ABS engage when you are driving? It should engage when you are braking. Are you braking?

Edit: now if the wheel was slipping the traction control/ESC could jump in and take over (depending on software, in order of engagement - cut engine power, brake slipping wheel, brake other wheels if car is sliding, turn steering wheel for you, engage trick differentials and power other wheel(s)) which is "normal" programmed response

Sounds like you got an outlyer car :)




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


andrewNZ
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  #1401445 7-Oct-2015 06:13
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If they can't get it to fault but you can, take them for a drive somewhere you know it will fault. You do the driving.




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Location: Dunedin

 

 


1eStar
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  #1401750 7-Oct-2015 14:01
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It could be a problem with the wheel sensors if they are not adjustable. I drove a holden once that had come back from service with the wheel sensors out of adjustment and it had the symptoms you speak of. The ESP was kicking in for no reason. I would be asking them to replace the wheel sensors if they can't adjust or clean them.

ubergeeknz
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  #1401759 7-Oct-2015 14:19
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1eStar: It could be a problem with the wheel sensors if they are not adjustable. I drove a holden once that had come back from service with the wheel sensors out of adjustment and it had the symptoms you speak of. The ESP was kicking in for no reason. I would be asking them to replace the wheel sensors if they can't adjust or clean them.


It makes sense.  I have had similar problems with ABS before, ie triggering for no good reason, which turned out to be bad wiring to a sensor.  ABS/ESP is only as good as its sensors.

 
 
 
 


Batman
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  #1401813 7-Oct-2015 15:15
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That makes sense




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MikeAqua
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  #1401818 7-Oct-2015 15:20
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I don't for a second believe the ESC should be coming on under normal driving.

I occasionally cause the ESC units to activate in both our vehicles and I have never/ever heard them make any noise before activation.

Something is seriously out of whack on your vehicle.  The ESC includes electronic, hydraulic and mechanical components and any of them can cause problems.

If you turn the ESC off and the problem persists, then you know the diagnosis is wrong.  Most cars have button to turn ESC off for snow/gravel.  If not just pull the fuse (for testing purposes only).

If it is the ESC I'd be taking it for a second opinion somewhere else (i.e. not a Ford service centre).




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  #1401847 7-Oct-2015 15:51
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sneaka:  I asked if the tolerances on the wheel sensors (which control the ABS and traction control modules) could be adjusted as obviously they are far too touchy for the windy and hilly roads I travel on regularly. They told me that the tolerances cannot be changed. Amazing in this IT day and age. Apparently this year of manufacture or build type (and I'm not exactly sure of the actual timeframe) was known for overly-sensitive wheel sensors.


The gap between the tone ring (usually mounted on a rotating part of your drivetrain) and the sensor (mounted on a fixed part) is often just set by it bolting it's precision cast face though a machined boss.
So non adjustable - though not necessarily correct. Dirt or rust on the locating surface will mess with it. And some sensors aren't as well made as others.

I've just swapped out a couple of new ABS sensors that were faulty from the factory. Only found out after removing and miking the shoulder to head distnce against the original ones, and noting a difference.

The tone ring - sensor gap is also dependent on the health of the bearings that the rotating part's running in.
Badly worn, sloppy bearings or side play will allow the gap to change under load. Is your axle or hub possibly clunking in & out on tight corners?

Fred99
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  #1401921 7-Oct-2015 17:05
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As well as the wheel speed sensors for ABS used by ESC, there's likely a steering position sensor as well as accelerometers so that if the wheel is turned and there's not the expected amount of turning force, the car "assumes" that traction is lost and ESC activates the brakes on a "per wheel" basis to correct the problem.  So either of these could be faulty too. 
I presume tyre pressures have been checked and there's even tread depth on both sides.
If there's no fault code generated, then it's a great big huge festering stinking pile of potential issues that Ford's service shop aren't going to want to look at unless the problem's so obvious it can't be ignored.  They won't want to look at it because if it's not able to be diagnosed with software, then to fix the problem probably means a long expensive task replacing sensors until the culprit is found.
I agree about taking one of their mechanics for a ride so that the issue can be demonstrated - or taking it elsewhere for a check.  You do need to prove there's an issue if they seem to be denying it, then as it's a potential safety issue, make sure everything's documented and read the riot act at them until the issue is resolved.





surfisup1000
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  #1401924 7-Oct-2015 17:14
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sxz: 2010 Ford Focus, Manual, 1.8L Turbo Diesel. I have owned this car for 8 months. Lately I have noticed a problem, which the Ford Dealer cannot find or diagnose. They gave the car a clean bill of health. The problem: Every now and then there is a clunking, or grinding somewhere in the powertrain. As I am driving along it clunks, whirs, grinds, the car loses power, I then usually lift off the throttle or engage the clutch, and something seems to pop back in, then the car is fine again. This happens very rarely, usually only on long trips. We've slowly narrowed it down and it seems to only happen on windy hills. It doesn't happen seem to happen in town or on long straight roads. The clutch and gearbox both feel fine to me as all other times, so to me, it seems like the problem only happens when the diff is under pressure. Has anyone else had any experience with this? Because the local Ford dealer hasn't...



One thing -- ford mechanics are not necessarily good at their jobs, despite the massive hourly charge out rates. So , you should keep pressing them. Perhaps, talk to their head office (i had success once through them). 

My territory used to make clunking noises when going around corners ... despite having ford look at it twice they said it was fine .  Even my mum said I should get it looked at as it didn't sound good. (wasn't the CV joint noise). 

Then, one day going in for a factory recall on some suspension part - can't remember which as the car has had so many issues. Got the car back and hey presto, clunking noise gone. 

Not impressed with their ability to diagnose a very obvious fault. 


Good luck though. 

Batman
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  #1402039 7-Oct-2015 21:52
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I've had Ford dealers fail to diagnose stuff before. So I don't necessarily believe that because they are Ford that they are good diagnosticians. THey can change the Ford cambelt the fastest of anybody, but diagnose stuff ... when they say nothing wrong it does not always mean nothing wrong.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


ubergeeknz
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  #1402407 8-Oct-2015 13:51
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Yes, maybe take it to an ABS/ESC specialist?  There used to be a guy in Onehunga who was really good, not sure if he's still in business.  Not cheap though, you'd want to ensure you could recover the cost from Ford if it's a warranty/CGA issue.

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