Raw price goes up, we pay more; raw price goes down, we pay the same

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Raw price goes up, we pay more; raw price goes down, we pay the same

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1209649 7-Jan-2015 08:33

I just wish the Commerce Commission would step in and do something about supermarket discounts and AA Smartfuel. These skew the market significantly and discounts in excess of 4c have been banned in Australia by the ACCC for this very reason.

We've seen importer margins increase considerably over the past 1-2 years, some of which is directly attributed to this.

GoodSync

GoodSync. Easily back up and sync your files with GoodSync. Simple and secure file backup and synchronisation software will ensure that your files are never lost (affiliate link).

khull

1245 posts

Uber Geek

#1209663 7-Jan-2015 08:52

The reality is more people worry a 4c increase at the pump (or 4c discount for their shopping) over a 0.25% increase in interest rates

SaltyNZ

8061 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#1209702 7-Jan-2015 09:28

NZSpides:

To be honest I want my flying car promised in Back to the future, but you never know...

Well, they sound great, but think about how stupid and completely unaware of their surroundings most drivers are. Now add the third dimension.

'Yes, constable, I was just flying along in my lane minding my own business when I saw the silver car just climb straight into the bottom of the poor lady in front of me. It all happened so fast!'

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

SaltyNZ

8061 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#1209703 7-Jan-2015 09:29

sbiddle: I just wish the Commerce Commission would step in and do something about supermarket discounts and AA Smartfuel. These skew the market significantly and discounts in excess of 4c have been banned in Australia by the ACCC for this very reason.

We've seen importer margins increase considerably over the past 1-2 years, some of which is directly attributed to this.

I dunno... it seems to me that lately the supermarket discounts (especially Pack'n'Save) just put the price back to what it is at the normal retailers.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

MurrayM

2440 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1209739 7-Jan-2015 10:26

Are there any petrol price comparison websites for Auckland? Here on the North Shore I was about to fill up for $1.89 when I saw just down the road they were selling it for $1.81. I assume that the overseas sites I've seen that give you petrol prices are crowd sourced?

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1209741 7-Jan-2015 10:29

sbiddle: I just wish the Commerce Commission would step in and do something about supermarket discounts and AA Smartfuel. These skew the market significantly and discounts in excess of 4c have been banned in Australia by the ACCC for this very reason.

We've seen importer margins increase considerably over the past 1-2 years, some of which is directly attributed to this.

Would the removal of these discounts change prices at the pump ? My feelings are no they would not and as a result the consumer would be worse off.

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1209754 7-Jan-2015 10:44

KiwiNZ:
sbiddle: I just wish the Commerce Commission would step in and do something about supermarket discounts and AA Smartfuel. These skew the market significantly and discounts in excess of 4c have been banned in Australia by the ACCC for this very reason.

We've seen importer margins increase considerably over the past 1-2 years, some of which is directly attributed to this.

Would the removal of these discounts change prices at the pump ? My feelings are no they would not and as a result the consumer would be worse off.

How would the consumer be worse off? Consumers are worse off now because of these discounts. Those not using discount vouchers are effectively funding the discounts for others which skews the market.

The role of the Commerce Commission is NOT to ensure customers get the best price. It's to ensure that a market operates in a way that ensures competition can (and does) exist, and that there aren't external factors such as bundling that skews pricing and selective discounts that hinder, and not increase competition. This is very, very, very wrong.

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1209763 7-Jan-2015 10:47

sbiddle:
KiwiNZ:
sbiddle: I just wish the Commerce Commission would step in and do something about supermarket discounts and AA Smartfuel. These skew the market significantly and discounts in excess of 4c have been banned in Australia by the ACCC for this very reason.

We've seen importer margins increase considerably over the past 1-2 years, some of which is directly attributed to this.

Would the removal of these discounts change prices at the pump ? My feelings are no they would not and as a result the consumer would be worse off.

How would the consumer be worse off? Consumers are worse off now because of these discounts. Those not using discount vouchers are effectively funding the discounts for others which skews the market.

The role of the Commerce Commission is NOT to ensure customers get the best price. It's to ensure that a market operates in a way that ensures competition can (and does) exist, and that there aren't external factors such as bundling that skews pricing and selective discounts that hinder, and not increase competition. This is very, very, very wrong.

If the discounts were banned it is my belief that the pump price would remain and the Oil companies pricing regimes would remain the same so the bottom line would be that consumers would no longer have the discounts and end up paying more for their fuel.

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1209776 7-Jan-2015 11:03

KiwiNZ:
If the discounts were banned it is my belief that the pump price would remain and the Oil companies pricing regimes would remain the same so the bottom line would be that consumers would no longer have the discounts and end up paying more for their fuel.

Didn't happen in Australia. Why would it do that here?

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1209810 7-Jan-2015 11:30

sbiddle:
KiwiNZ:
If the discounts were banned it is my belief that the pump price would remain and the Oil companies pricing regimes would remain the same so the bottom line would be that consumers would no longer have the discounts and end up paying more for their fuel.

Didn't happen in Australia. Why would it do that here?

Different markets

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1209825 7-Jan-2015 11:49

That makes no difference. Fuel is a deregulated market where price is a key driver - the proof of this is the mere fact discount vouchers have increased considerably in value, and pockets where Gull are operating have seen pricing driven to prices that are below the landed cost of fuel. Both of these have contributed to the importer margin increasing.

If discounting was removed basic economic theory would dictate that prices would establish themselves at a price where the importer margin covers costs. While I'd need to check all the data to give exact numbers, the importer margin sat at a median value of around 18c for pretty much the first 11 years of this decade. It's only increased (and hit figures as high as 35c) since fuel dockets and AA rewards aggressively hit the market and created an artificially high retail.

k1wi

484 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1209859 7-Jan-2015 12:38

The cost of gas where I am here in the US has gone from USD$3.50 a gallon in July to USD$2.14, so we're getting close to a 38% drop in total price and it has been going down week on week since about August I think. At one point it was about 10c a week. If you exclude fuel taxes (which are 45c/gallon here or easily less than a fifth of NZ excise taxes) the drop is $3.05 down to $1.69 (44%), with some downward pressure still to flow through I suspect. Filling up a Honda Jazz from the fuel light to full barely costs a twenty now.

The NZ dollar has come back about 11c since July, meaning in that NZ dollars a barrel of oil has gone from approx $130 to $65 (~50%), but then that's the cost of crude oil in the US, rather than refined petrol in NZ, which has purchasing, processing [refining costs ~USD6-7 per barrel at Marsden, for example and tends to increase with falling prices], transporting [fuel costs are only a proportion of transport costs] and retailing costs that are either relatively fixed, or lag the change in raw product value*. There's potentially even some hedging losses in there too.

From my calculations working in USD to compensate for the change in currency, by mid-december New Zealand prices had come back about 23%, or 28% if excluding fixed fuel excises & GST on that excise (the 'tax on tax'). A drop to $1.80/l would represent a drop of 29% (37% if excluding fuel taxes). That's not the 50% drop of the crude price, but $1.80/l 37% is getting close to current US tax excluded drop (and we're a whole lot closer to the wells & refineries here).

Personally, I'd be look towards seeing the price at the pump continue to fall as the market caught up.

*It would be here that you add the quick to raise, slow to drop perhaps..?

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#1209864 7-Jan-2015 12:57

joker97: Apparently last year crude oil was US115 a barrel. Today it's US50 a barrel. I think petrol prices at the station only went down a few cents ... hmm ...

Same with dairy products ...

Someone explain?

Prices were around 2.20/l . Now, the local Z is selling for around 1.77/l. Thats around a 30% discount.

But, when oil was last at the todays price we were paying around 1.30/l for 91.

I'd say the 0.47/l extra we are paying today can be explained by new taxes, wages/non-cogs inflation, and maybe fatter margins.

My guess is that we are paying about 10-20c too much by historical standards. Maybe a bit more because the nzd is stronger than it was back then.

blakamin

4431 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1209930 7-Jan-2015 14:26

$1.09 here in Adelaide today (i just paid $1.26 for 98).. Just after all the "experts" were saying it was going to rise from the $1.13 it was last week.
The highest I've seen it in the last 2 years was $1.63 about 3 months ago.

old3eyes

9110 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1209968 7-Jan-2015 15:53

sbiddle:
KiwiNZ:
sbiddle: I just wish the Commerce Commission would step in and do something about supermarket discounts and AA Smartfuel. These skew the market significantly and discounts in excess of 4c have been banned in Australia by the ACCC for this very reason.

We've seen importer margins increase considerably over the past 1-2 years, some of which is directly attributed to this.

Would the removal of these discounts change prices at the pump ? My feelings are no they would not and as a result the consumer would be worse off.

How would the consumer be worse off? Consumers are worse off now because of these discounts. Those not using discount vouchers are effectively funding the discounts for others which skews the market.

The role of the Commerce Commission is NOT to ensure customers get the best price. It's to ensure that a market operates in a way that ensures competition can (and does) exist, and that there aren't external factors such as bundling that skews pricing and selective discounts that hinder, and not increase competition. This is very, very, very wrong.

You wouldn't have a fuel card would you and are pissed off because you can't use your supermarket discount voucher with it??

Regards,

Old3eyes

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5