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  Reply # 1212458 12-Jan-2015 12:51
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blind testing needed to settle argument, even then, it might not.

otherwie no point contesting this ... i still don't agree with amp needed when there is decent headunit and decent speaker. but i really don't know much about car head units .... or speakers ...

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  Reply # 1212470 12-Jan-2015 12:57
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I'm interested in this as well. My car (VE Commodore) has pretty rubbish paper cones from the factory that I would like to replace with something just a little bit better. Believe they are all standard 6" so should be a fairly simple replacement job




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  Reply # 1212474 12-Jan-2015 12:59
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joker97: blind testing needed to settle argument, even then, it might not.

otherwie no point contesting this ... i still don't agree with amp needed when there is decent headunit and decent speaker. but i really don't know much about car head units .... or speakers ...


unless there is no such thing as a decent headunit ...

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  Reply # 1212479 12-Jan-2015 13:09
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There were a few good ones a while back but the current demands meant you needed another feed from the battery anyway. Otherwise no head deck has the peak power needed to deliver good sound.




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  Reply # 1212485 12-Jan-2015 13:21
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i guess one needs to separate good from loud.

here's the physics:
a speaker with an efficiency of 90dB at 1m at 1W at 1kHz (that is similarly spec-ed at 30Hz - low freqency is harder to drive esp w small speakers, so that may not be achievable)
so if you headunit has a RMS of 1W per channel you will hear 90dB in your ear. that's plenty loud.

every 3dB requires doubling of power.
so a headunit of RMW of 16W per channel, at both channels driven, will blast your ears at 102dB.

if you want 120dB you need a 1024W RMS amp. buying a 200W amp vs a 16W headunit ... MEH

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  Reply # 1212505 12-Jan-2015 13:25
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Except rms is meaningless unless you want to listen to sinusoidal test tones in the car. A 12v supply gives a real peak of about 45 watts. A standard recording has a 10 dB peak to average power so the most you get is 4.5w average levels without you peaks distorting.

It will be higher on over compressed pop crap but that is so mangled by the mixing it's only suitable as background music.




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  Reply # 1212507 12-Jan-2015 13:29
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heylinb4nz: Focal 6.5" components. Very high sensitivity and sound great running off a headunit. For comparison I run Alpine R-type Components off 2 x 60RMS amp, and my friends Focals running off headunit sound the same.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-stereos/speakers/other/auction-830787089.htm

or 2way if components are too pricey



I have the above Focal's, running off a Pioneer head unit.
An amp + sub are potential purchases... but I'm certainly not a 'thump thump' bass sorta guy. Something to fill in the frequency gap that the speakers can't reach would be nice. I'll probably try an amp first.

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  Reply # 1212521 12-Jan-2015 13:49
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joker97: blind testing needed to settle argument, even then, it might not.

otherwie no point contesting this ... i still don't agree with amp needed when there is decent headunit and decent speaker. but i really don't know much about car head units .... or speakers ...



Ive run many a decent speaker ($120-$180 components) and also $80-$100 2 ways (ie factory replacement) all from 4x50W or 4x45W headunits. 

Pioneer, Alpine, Rockford fostgate, JBL, Jaycar Reponse, Kenwood, Soundstream you name it.


All rubbish sound in comparison to running a small 2X60RMS amp. 


Adding a 8" sub and running 120rms was a step up in sound quality again.


Again all subjective really, in my mind decent is being able to listen to music in the car and not feel like im largely missing out compared to listening at home.






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  Reply # 1212531 12-Jan-2015 13:54
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Dunnersfella:
heylinb4nz: Focal 6.5" components. Very high sensitivity and sound great running off a headunit. For comparison I run Alpine R-type Components off 2 x 60RMS amp, and my friends Focals running off headunit sound the same.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-stereos/speakers/other/auction-830787089.htm

or 2way if components are too pricey



I have the above Focal's, running off a Pioneer head unit.
An amp + sub are potential purchases... but I'm certainly not a 'thump thump' bass sorta guy. Something to fill in the frequency gap that the speakers can't reach would be nice. I'll probably try an amp first.


 

Dont forget to treat your doors if they havent been already, youll get a good result even before an amp on the focals.

 

Even so a decent set of 6.5" components running off an amp in treated doors will only go as low as mid bass (or upper sub bass if you are lucky).

If you're on a budget and want to fill in that missing bit where your component run out then I can highly reccomend the Pioneer low profile 8" sub SW801D, in recommended box size (11L) and running 120-140RMS. Fits nicely under seat (in some cars).



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  Reply # 1212715 12-Jan-2015 19:52
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great responses....shall look into the focals...first maybe a cheapish amp in time whats a good way of making the doors sound proof etc..seen the dyna stuff seems pretty expensive though....




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  Reply # 1212716 12-Jan-2015 19:53
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if it helps the head unit I have is alpine 152e cde




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  Reply # 1212735 12-Jan-2015 20:24
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foxy38: great responses....shall look into the focals...first maybe a cheapish amp in time whats a good way of making the doors sound proof etc..seen the dyna stuff seems pretty expensive though....


Unless youre going for competition quality audio the following is enough to do a decent job on the front doors.


This stuff here for your door cards

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-Foam-rubber-Thick-0-39-inch-sound-deadening-material-heat-deadener-21-53sq-ft/1839250163.html


One of these kits for where the speakers mount http://www.ebay.com/itm/DYNAMAT-XTREME-Speaker-Kit-2-10-x10-NEW-10415-/271195713664?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f24863080


4 sheets of Mongoose Q mat to do inside the door (outer skin) and to seal up the holes on the door

http://www.mongoose.co.nz/products/q-mat.html



Sounds a fair bit, but for the $200 you are setting your doors up for better mid bass. No amount of quality amp or speaker will make up for a door that hasnt been converted into something other than a thin tin can.


Your doors will also have a nice solid feel and thunk when  you close them (like expensive luxury euro car).





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  Reply # 1212738 12-Jan-2015 20:28
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thanks heylin....shall look into it




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  Reply # 1212802 12-Jan-2015 22:18
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hmm ... i want to insulate my subaru legacy!

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  Reply # 1212805 12-Jan-2015 22:24
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1. in terms of the speakers loads of options from name brands and lesser known brands too - and not super expensive eg $100

2. strongly recommend an amp as head units are seriously underpowered and tend to provide their power figures with hideous THD %ages of 1% or even 10% - translation @ these power levels there is sh%tloads of distortion and it sounds terrible

even a smallish 2 or 4 channel will make a world of difference - and can be had pretty cheaply - certainly less than $200 and even lower for lesser known brands

-------
3. ve commodore speakers

ajobbins: I'm interested in this as well. My car (VE Commodore) has pretty rubbish paper cones from the factory that I would like to replace with something just a little bit better. Believe they are all standard 6" so should be a fairly simple replacement job


yeah i have a ve ss v

- imported some alpine semi competition components from the US - $400NZD landed - cf NZ RRP = $1100
- reused older fusion amp
- new alpine type r sub

however stereo upgrade was a pain:

1. because the factory stereo is built-in and incl aircon etc - i had to use the factory hu (blaupunkt i believe)
2. however the factory doesn't have any lineouts
3. so i needed to run off the speaker line inputs - and then split through a processor to give 4 channels
4. however as the ve is electrically VERY noisy - the amp just boosted this noise - say hello to annoying noise / engine whine / alternator hum : / = not happy
5. buy a better quality processor ie. rockford fosgate 3.sixty (also imported from the US) = much better noise suppression and ability to tune / time delays / etc etc

finally a nice clear (and loud) car stereo ie. was looking more for sq than spl.

was a bit of a mish though....even with rapid radio doing the dirty work

so...long story short... if you ain't prepared to do the above - just replace the factory drivers (which are $5 paper cone rubbish, which may well be perished by now) with something half decent and be done with it : )








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