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  Reply # 1221236 24-Jan-2015 06:53
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BigHammer:
sbiddle: Likewise I recall the ad from ~10 years ago that showed a jogger running straight out in front of a car and saying that if the driver had been going 50 they would have had time to stop is a flawed argument. Regardless of the speed somebody walking out without looking is the actual problem.


Same applies to the current ad. Both actors walk out onto the road from in front of the parked vehicle without looking.

When I was a kid (yeah, ages ago) we were taught to look right, then left, and then right again before crossing a road, and then cross when safe to do so. Even though this is what I teach/taught my children, it would seem the powers that be have decided you can now cross a road wherever and whenever you wish and it's up to drivers to ensure they stop to allow you to cross. No wonder kids these days just walk out in front of cars and hurl abuse at drivers.


It is not that hard to work out that the message of the Adv is your speed affects others and that you should drive in a manner that allows you the ability to react and deal with the actions of others. No where is the adv asserting that the actions of others were correct or OK.




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1221242 24-Jan-2015 07:58
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The other missed point in this thread is that people keep defaulting to the message being that speed 'causes' crashes. While many times that is that case, the shift in the speed focus has been to accept that mistakes will be made, and crashes will happen, but if the cars are traveling at a lower speed (at fault or not) then the chance of survival is greatly improved. It's basic physics. And yes 5km/h can add quite a bit of kinetic energy into an impact. Einstein figured that out a couple of years ago, the science on impact speeds is irrefutable.







Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



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  Reply # 1221254 24-Jan-2015 08:55
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Maybe I'm a useless driver, but I find it pretty difficult to stay 50/100km/h on the dot, especially in varied terrain. I think a minimum 6km/h tolerance would be more reasonable, I'm sure anything less could be argued as not humanly achievable with enough time and money (we are not robots!). Drivers expect other drivers to drive on the limit, and with rules this tight more people will drive under these limits, causing even more frustration. If police believe that existing speed limits are the magic number that will save lives, then maybe they should drop the sign posted limits by 4km/h, and and fine anyone over the current limits.

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  Reply # 1221262 24-Jan-2015 09:17
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scuwp: The other missed point in this thread is that people keep defaulting to the message being that speed 'causes' crashes. While many times that is that case, the shift in the speed focus has been to accept that mistakes will be made, and crashes will happen, but if the cars are traveling at a lower speed (at fault or not) then the chance of survival is greatly improved. It's basic physics. And yes 5km/h can add quite a bit of kinetic energy into an impact. Einstein figured that out a couple of years ago, the science on impact speeds is irrefutable.





Speaking of physics, I'm pretty sure if you are twice over the limit for example, it will take four times as long to stop than if you were going at half the speed. Because Ek=1/2mv(2) ?




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  Reply # 1221265 24-Jan-2015 09:25
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So drive at 95k/45k and you wont get a ticket.

Life is full of limits and rules.

No one here goes round saying things like..
      - drink driving limit should be +/- 5%
      - age of consent +/- 5%
      - price of product at counter is +/- 5%
      - top tax rate is+/- 5%
      - monogamy +/- 5% ( dear wife, sorry thought a only needed to be monogamous 95% of the time)


A.


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  Reply # 1221275 24-Jan-2015 10:10
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I'm not sure about the bit on monogamy ... I know for some people it's about 10-90!

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  Reply # 1221282 24-Jan-2015 10:32
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afe66: So drive at 95k/45k and you wont get a ticket.

Life is full of limits and rules.


Limits that are quantified have to be measured. Most things sold by weight are slightly over to avoid the penalties for selling underweight.

It's much easier to measure time than a moving vehicle. What's next for the Absolutists, getting rid of the 6 minute grace period for metered parking?

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  Reply # 1221286 24-Jan-2015 10:46
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there is no 6 minute grace period for parking. 0 minute is the latest. 1 min over and you get a ticket

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  Reply # 1221287 24-Jan-2015 10:51
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Bung:
afe66: So drive at 95k/45k and you wont get a ticket.

Life is full of limits and rules.


Limits that are quantified have to be measured. Most things sold by weight are slightly over to avoid the penalties for selling underweight.

It's much easier to measure time than a moving vehicle. What's next for the Absolutists, getting rid of the 6 minute grace period for metered parking?


the limit is the limit. any "grace" is grace, does not have to be given. I think there are three separate arguments in this forum

1) should people driving over the "limit" not be penalised. - it depends on the cop, coz the limit is the limit.
2) should 50/100 be the appropriate limit. I think even if it tries to cater for the lowest  common denominator, these lowest commons don't follow any rules. so I have no comments. it more like caters for the lowish common denominators, who do try to follow some rules.
3) does 1kmh of extra speed kill, and does clamping down on 1k over the limit prevent deaths ... IMO I don't think so for either.

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  Reply # 1221306 24-Jan-2015 11:20
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afe66: So drive at 95k/45k and you wont get a ticket.

Life is full of limits and rules.

No one here goes round saying things like..
      - drink driving limit should be +/- 5%
      - age of consent +/- 5%
      - price of product at counter is +/- 5%
      - top tax rate is+/- 5%
      - monogamy +/- 5% ( dear wife, sorry thought a only needed to be monogamous 95% of the time)


A.



The difference is that with speed, human error is involved. My point is that its near impossible to stay at an exact speed, and therefore there needs to be a tolerance. The other option is that we drive under the speed limit, however this will cause frustration among other drivers. Whether that is right or wrong, that is what will happen. Maybe we need to be re-educated that the limit is a target, and driving under it is acceptable.

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  Reply # 1221308 24-Jan-2015 11:27
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joker97: there is no 6 minute grace period for parking. 0 minute is the latest. 1 min over and you get a ticket


Surprisingly I've always seen the Auckland City council exercise about a 15 minute grace period. They also give you a 1 month grace period on a expired rego.

A little bit of sympathy never hurt anyone, and I really appreciate it in this busy mad world.

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  Reply # 1221324 24-Jan-2015 12:18
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joker97: there is no 6 minute grace period for parking. 0 minute is the latest. 1 min over and you get a ticket


Land Transport Act Interpretions

"

 

parking means,—

 

     

  •  

    (a) in relation to any portion of a road where parking is for the time being governed by the location of parking meters placed pursuant to a bylaw of a local authority, the stopping or standing of a vehicle on that portion of the road for any period exceeding 5 minutes:"

     


I've taken that as the reason that Wellington wardens wait 6 mins before issuing a ticket. So I was a minute out.

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  Reply # 1221332 24-Jan-2015 12:42
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Maybe someone wants to talk to the Dunedin city council ... They go by the minute

That article just defines parking, no legal boundaries over fines for expired parking. If you are there for 65 mins with a 60 min ticket obviously you have parked according to that article

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  Reply # 1221335 24-Jan-2015 12:52
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That's your problem. Wellington takes the approach that you were legally parked for x minutes and unless you have been there longer than a maximum period you have 6 minutes to appear with another coupon for additional time. Pay and display meters aren't necessarily alongside every park.

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  Reply # 1221346 24-Jan-2015 13:13
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I don't have a problem

I walk

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